Do we truly need low-skill immigration labourers?

Question

I argue absolutely not.

Machinery can easily replace low-skill labour as we have seen many times in Japan with rice and tea harvesting. Japan has negligible immigration for low-skill employees- the world's no. 2 economy.

Machinery not only works out to be more efficient and cost-effective in the long-term- the obstacle is the initial capital investment which many employers choose not to make as cheap, disposable labour is more easily attainable at hand.

If employers were to invest in machinery- it would create long-term, sustainable employment and build the manufacturing sector- not to mention the financial sector.

Your thoughts?

Native populations are not lazy it is a myth. Simple truth is natives won't work for a crap wage and no rights- simple.
Immigrants are attractive as they are cheap and expendable.

The point about Japan is that it has negligible immigration.
Your arguments pro-immigration are very simplistic- surely the working man would be far better off in sustainable manufacturing where he could develop greater skills than picking berries? And indeed be far more marketable for other employment?

Anton good- but what if the machinery were locally made?
You point out a company purchasing overseas machinery- surely the machinery (ideally) could be made in the UK too? What stops us? Answer is a non-conducive environment set by government- it's all a vicious circle.

The jobs are hard to fill because no native in their right mind would work for such dreadful wages and exploitative conditions.
Natives won't work for peanuts and they know their rights.
Exploitative employers will simply find a more expedient, cheaper, more flexible (aka easier to hire/fire)- the immigrant worker.

Snooker I cannot fathom why you as a Leftist would argue the rights of the immigrant effectively above your own working people, who are union contributors- immigrants generally are not.

Why would you advocate the exploitation of the immigrant as a necessity? Have you truly been blinded by Blair's signing the EU to contravene EU law on worker entitlements?
France, Germany and Belgium have signed to protect migrant workers- why not Blair?

Perhaps your bourgeoisie resentment would be better redirected at the Blair government who is practising oppression of the immigrant as we speak- not a political party seeking to remove the oppressor from power.

Mister W- your comment is glib and flippant it beggars no counter-argument whatsoever.
You sir, are a fool of few peers.

Excellent points Dread- it's almost another 3 books in itself isn't it- the arguments for and against a mechanised labour force?
But in a mechanised labour force- would the lower skills be transformed into skilled mechanics/engineers/parts factory workers?
Another thesis for another day perhaps.

Answer 1

Illegal immigrants take the jobs from low skill legal immigrants and low skill legal us workers who could otherswise demand high wages for the same work.

If not for the illegals the same work would pay more and offer benefits. Not only are they not needed, a strong economy requires they not be present. labor needs to have some power and they undermine that by undercutting it.

Answer 2

There is some good analysis here, but much of it isn't carrying the thought to the nth degree. I'm an engineer and will vouch for the fact that automation can indeed do much of what we consider low/no skill labor. This is a given. But my background also raises some other flags that I think about automatically and I hope that you'll at least consider.

Let's consider hypothetical farm equipment and some of the responsibilities that will make it's purchase profitable in the long run.. So let's choose our equipment with the idea of cutting the low/ no skilled laborer out of the picture. Now will this machinery separate the product according to grade? This CAN be done by a machine. Will the soil be left in a condition to welcome the seedlings of the NEXT harvest? This too, can be achieved. No trick questions...yet. Not tricky, but extremely EXPENSIVE if we're using electronic optics and sensors. These highly sensitive pieces of technology don't take to soil and dirt too well, either.

We are dealing now with machinery, so let's go ahead and get to the inevitable. I'm talking about breakdowns, that are out of necessity followed up by that UMBRELLA term known as MAINTENANCE that's going to do adjustments and calibrations, scheduled servicing, cleanings, parts replacements, testing, and monitoring among other compulsory duties. So when you buy your equipment, keep in mind that upon malfunction, you WILL be at the mercy and convenience of an area service center OR, if you are General Mills or Cargill's, or Warner-Lambert, you will build, supply, and EMPLOY your own service center. Your NEW employees ain't working for crumbs, either. Engineers, technicians, and mechanics for starters.....

Look, I don't feel like writing a book this morning. From what I've introduced you should be able to see WHY LABOR IS USED AS IT IS TODAY. That is my point. I am not saying anything of the morality or patriotism OR LACK of either. I am only HINTING at the cost of doing business UNDER A DIFFERENT SCENERIO and trying to shed some light onto why it is done as it IS.
.
.

Answer 3

U.K. I used to work in a food factory that invested in some expensive machinery, if something went wrong with it they had to get an engineer and spare parts from Iceland from where it was made, very expensive and time consuming. The fresh food factories need non stop production every day to meet there targets on time, or they will lose their customers, people are more reliable.

Answer 4

I am afraid I disagree with this because I can't figure out where or what would happen to the people who are holding these jobs? Then what if there was a electrical black out for any length of time? What might seem to be good for a company may not be good for the working man, he could starve to death. I don't think that it's the use of machinery that makes japan #2 in economy, it's there education.

Answer 5

I agree that the US can survive without illegal immigrants. Many do low pay and low skill jobs because they are low pay. Landscaping and lawn work can be done by property owners or does not have to be done at all. House cleaning can be done by homeowners. People just find it easier and cheaper to hire illegals.

Conservative radio talk show hosts have recently dug up an interesting statistic: about 76% of workers in agriculture in the US are American citizens. So there are lots of people willing to do the work.

The agriculture industry was the leader in mechanization until cheap labor stopped the progress.

Answer 6

Maybe not but somebody is hiring them. They may have worked out that it's cheaper for them in the short term to use people rather than invest in machines they probably won't need at some point (work may be seasonal), or the initial cost is too high.

There'd always be people who'd rather go abroad to work.

People from the US and UK emigrate every day to do work indigenous people could do.

People have really got to stop whining and deal with reality.

Answer 7

We do need immigrants. The jobs are there for the taking. UK workers won't do those jobs.
And for those who conveniently forget the facts, illegal immigrants CANNOT work without papers. No employer will risk their business now the penalties are so severe. Unless of course they're unscrupulous and deceitful and depriving the taxman and the treasury of what is rightfully theirs. We Brits are very good at that sort of caper.
Open your eyes folks, the BNP and the NF are alive and kicking right here, right now.

Answer 8

Investment in machinery is for the future. At persent many developed nations such as the US and UK need unskilled human labour.

Smoetimes foreign labour is needed as much of the 'native' population is simply too lazy or apathetic to work efficiently, or indeed work at all.

Answer 9

We certainly do
how would you like to return to the old days when British workers were paid a living wage and food was so expensive that we all starved.
Hang on a minute, am I missing something?

Answer 10

I can not see how low skill cheap foreign labour can help an economy in the long, they take on jobs from higher paid workers then send all or a lot of their earnings abroad, so they are putting our work force out of a job and lowering the value of our money.