Are Atheists Winning The Argument?

Question

As a long term christian I have of late become increasingly disillusioned with the teachings of the church especially with regard to their obsession with gay bashing and their anti-abortion stance, which seems to take priority over what I consider more pressing issues such as alleviating poverty in the developing world and eradicating the contagion of paedophilia which has engulfed the church in recent years.

It is for this reason that I have of late been looking into the arguments in favour of atheism as highlighted in the following link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/atheism/history/science.shtml

Do you consider that atheists provide a better model of how the world works and how our problems could be solved? Are faith beliefs such as christianity and islam just relics of the past which have no place in our modern world?

Answer 1

I think the church probably does spend too much time on not as relevent issue but don't give up faith i think it does have a place.

Answer 2

I have no idea whether atheists offer a better model of how the world works. Atheism is the absence of a belief in god. It is not an active belief that god does not exists, anymore than you take on an active belief that pixies don't exist. It is not a belief system, as such.

Therefore it is not a way of life or a philosophy for you to follow. Some atheists will be good people and offer wise leadership, others will not and will have all the vices that some religious leaders have.

Religion was a way of explaining our existence at a time when as a human race we had little understanding of the physical world. We are leaning all the time about the universe and no longer need to reference everything to a mystical being. It seems to me that your problem lies in the fact that religions too often adhere to teachings that are no longer relevant and only justified as being the word of god or as long-standing tenets that just have to be accepted on faith.

They won't move on, whilst you want to. However, not believing in a god does not make you a lesser person, nor does it make you a bad person. Many people who do not have religious faith do have the virtues that you probably admire, such as tolerance, charity, compassion, etc. You would not lose those virtues if you realised that believing in a god is mistaken.

I do not believe in a god and I don't know the answer to the world's ills, but I do observe that religious faith does seem to cause people to do terrible things. Wars and suicide bombings are justified in the name of religion. Torture and discrimination too.

As far as I know in modern times, there are no wide-spread killings between atheists in the name of atheism.

Answer 3

I understand what you're saying.

I'm not a believer, but I don't discount the possibility of "something" waiting for me when the big day comes. So I really can't be put in the whole "athesist" category.

Still, the problem I always found with religion was that apparently, god gave you your senses. Sadly, none of these senses are capable of actually of being used directly with god. You can't see him, you can't touch him, you can't hear or taste him. Now I know the devout amongst us will say "you can see him every day in his creations". But frankly thats something of a cop out answer and lacks substance. If god had put a CE mark on his trees then I'd probably buy it.

I much prefer to go along with the theory that, whatever god there is (after all, if you tot up all the gods worshipped, someones gonna be wrong when they bite it), is probably a good hearted soul, and that if you've led a good life and done yourself and others a morally good service, then he'll probably let you in rather than sending you down to old harry. We just wont get tickets for the VIP lounge.

Answer 4

Atheists win arguments through fact it is plenty less demanding for them to stay genuine. As you're saying, concept in God is in line with subjective reports. to think of their religious ideals are actual, believers are compelled to settle for a solipsistic perspective and to have self belief that their very own subjective reports are genuine. This immediately famous the glaring weak spot of the believer's argument -- it is no longer objectively genuine. Atheists, on the different hand, comprehend that the actual realm is the only purpose actuality. They be attentive to their perceptions are an phantasm created via their very own brains and that purpose (actual) actuality can't be in the present day experienced. being waiting to conceive of all of purpose actuality, with out inevitably perceiving it with their very own senses, supplies atheists the diverse great thing approximately deeply expertise the genuine nature of purpose actuality. actuality wins arguments plenty traditionally than superstition.

Answer 5

I think atheists are winning the argument they are having with the straw man they have propped up: they are kicking that religion's butt!

It is too bad they are convincing too many good and decent people that the straw man religion the atheists are arguing with is actually their religion.

First of all, there are reasons Christianity is critical of abortion. As ethical beings, that is really, really something we should be beyond. We fancy ourselves moral and reasoning beings: but what other species can rationalize a parent terminating their own offspring? We've allowed lawyers draw a convoluted line in the sand for us that says that human life begins at birth, which is demonstrably false!

Dawkins and his fellow atheists correctly make the (unoriginal) point that a full grown cow is more neurologically developed than a baby, and they are not technically incorrect. But this is exactly what religion brings to the table that a purely secular outlook never can.

Religion respects the fact that human beings are experiential; not everything is comparative reason. Anyone who has ever seen a baby born, knows that it is a moment that is palpable in its sanctity. It is a moment like that for which words like "holy" were invented. The analytical mind can look at it and talk about gestation periods, dilation, and the evolution of placental mammals. But only the spiritual mind can appreciate how momentous a thing this truly is!

So it is with our problems in the world. You talk of poverty: and yet if you actually watch any of the late night programs where some presenter goes on and on about the need to feed people in Bangladesh or South America, he's being experiential. He's not tossing statistics at you, he's typically speaking from the anguish he has from having seen it, and he's tapping into the anguish you are feeling.

He's representing a Christian-started charity, nine out of ten times too. World Vision, Christian Children's Fund - all typically begun by missionaries who were astonished by the tremendous need in the places they visited, and determined to do something about it.

The atheist must argue that the experience of being human, our empathy, is accidental, the result of selfish genes (as Dawkin puts it) that convinced their bearers over generations that avoiding leopards and finding meet required greater cooperation than that found among quadruped ancestors.

Religion speaks directly to this part of man that is so alive. It does not condescend to it as if it were some primitive and accidental part of the human soul. It speaks directly to it, saying to this part of you, "I know that this is why you really are."

Think about it - do you belong to the religion they're talking about? The one about the pedophiles and politics?

Or do you belong to this religion? The one that speaks to you right out of Jesus words? "Every hair on your head is counted."

Only you can choose. But I would not recommend amputating a part of yourself atheism will never be able to speak to.

Answer 6

Christianity is not a relic of the past. It is the certainty of a future. In these "last days" we are told there will be false prophets, teachers, preachers, etc. The church of today is under attack from all the demons that Satan can muster. Take heart you have the God given free will to choose a church that is bible based, one that fits your convictions on the way the message should be put forth. With the advent of TV Evangelists we have seen an increasing number of what I see as money, self, and greed based teachings by people who purport to serve the Lord but in truth serve themselves. We are taught to discern the true from the false through the Holy Spirit. Turning to Atheism from God is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. It sounds like you have lost the joy of your salvation, you have the ability to find it again keep searching until you find the church you feel at home in whether it be Catholic, Baptist, Evangelical, Pentecostal, whatever as long as it is Bible based and Christ is the head of the church.

Answer 7

Jesus teaches to have love and mercy and as Christians we should try to be more like him after all that is why he came here to show us the way. I do believe what the Bible says and being gay or any other sin is wrong but god dose forgive all sin and I think Jesus wants us to live by example, some Church's seem to carry things too far as in bashing instead of showing love, It's not wrong to point out sin but it should be done with love and grace if not it can drive people away from God.But the Bible has not been fulfilled yet and to say it has no place in our modern world is not good, It is not our world, It belongs to the Creator(GOD) and just because a sin has become popular with the world don't make it right or acceptable with God.

Answer 8

There are so many people in this world that do such good - alieviatig poverty, fund raising, animal welfare, child care - whatever is your passion. You don't have to be religious to want to live a good, honest and caring life. I am not religious in any way at all - I just cannot understand how people can be enslaved to a certain being i.e. God. Not always, but often Christians appear to be the most narrow minded and unforgiving people particularly on issues such as gay rights and abortion. They continually cover up peadophillia when it goes on right under their noses reuining many young lives for ever. The Church often appears hellbent on making the lives of gays and women who have had or need abortions a living nightmare. You don't need to be forgiven for having an abortion or a gay person.

Be yourself, you do not have to dedicate yourself to a cause. Be spiritual, have your own faith that you are a good person. You don't need the church to endorse that. Set yourself free!!!

Answer 9

I don't think words can convince people that there are no gods - if you're willing to believe in something with zero evidence to support it.......

atheism isn't about providing a better model for life. Atheism is the lack of belief in gods. Everything else is entirely up to the individual. So I can't pretend that it will make you happy, or will even make the world a better place.

OTOH religion doesn't seem to do that either

Answer 10

"If" everyone on this earth were truly Christian, and not just a member of some church-we would not be having these problems.
For you to honestly consider atheism after being a Christian for the long term only says you were never Christian. Yes, you may have belonged to some religious group, but you were never connected to God. This is a major problem today for Christianity. I saw some info a few years back that indicated more than 75% of professing Christians were actually lost. I suspect that you fall into that group.
Think about it. When God destroyed the world the first time-only 8 survived. If this is any indication-I would be nervous if I were you.
Ever consider that you may be in the wrong church. There are a lot of different denominations for a good reason. It may do you some good to understand this.

Answer 11

The thing is, there is no 'argument' to win, in the sense of combating one set of beliefs with another. As an atheist, my world-view is not faith based, so I am not competing with anyone's idea of god or how to worship. I do not have to put up or defend any beliefs of my own, I just challenge people who make extraordinary claims about the nature of the observed universe - that it is a product of a creator entity - to present tangible evidence to back such claims. In the absence of such evidence, we are falling back on faith, and I can't argue with faith, all I can say is that you have not convinced me of the validity of the things you have faith in!

But when it comes to the activities of organised religion rather than the faith of individuals, that is a different matter. Religion does real and tangible harm, and I feel no barb is too sharp in attacking it!