Does the Catholic Church have anything against the book of Revelation?

Question

About a fortnight ago, I was skimming my Bible, and happened to come upon the book of Revelation. After reading for a while, I realized that Satan became associated with Rome, and other empires that had conquered the Jews at other times. Now I have two thoughts: firstly, what does the Catholic Church (my own denomination) have to say about the book, seeing as it accuses the seat of our Church as a place of evil. Secondly, does this imply that Rome, the birthplace of Western culture, was the origin of evil, which has now spread to every corner of the world? Please, I ask of you, do not muddle this question with brevity; I am only concerned with serious answers.

As it turns out, I know a good deal about history, and understand why Revelation is written as it is. At that time, Rome was seen as a persecutor, and therefore, was associated with the devil. I also realise that Rome did not become a spiritual center until much later, however, as Pastor Billy reasserted, Rome was seen as a corrupted culture, yet it is the very basis of our culture. So what would John say if he could see our Greco-Roman culture today? Would he still associate us with the evils of Rome? Or would he look past the petty prejudice that inspired the book and realize that just because the Jews and Christians were persecuted under Rome doesn't mean that Romans are more evil than say Egyptians or even Christians, for that matter?

Answer 1

Pastor Billy says: you have to get beyond the superficial nature of bible analysis you are familiar with.

Let us go from superficial to a study in depth

1. the Catholic Church is responsible for compiling the Christian bible if they did have a problem with that book it would not have made it into the canon and left out like Martin Luther did.

2. if there is an eternal problem with any one geographical location such as Rome than why does St. Paul write a letter to those believers in...Rome, and why does his letter to the... Romans make it into the biblical canon?

3. the seat of our Church is not necessarily a place but a position of office, the papacy. The See of Peter is what you are referring to and let us assume for one minute Peter stayed in Antioch and was martyrd there. Chances are the entire Church universal today would be known as the Antiocian Catholic Church.

4. at the time the Apocalypse was written there was no... Vatican City it had yet to be created so John was only referring to the spiritually coruptive culture of pagan Rome not the Christianization to follow it in later centuries. Vatican City is the central diocese of the universal Church, it is a completely separate state from the city of Rome this is a key distinction you neglect to consider.

5. the ultimate question lacking here is.. Doesn't God conquer all? If yes than John's symbolism of "the eternal city" as Babylon doesn't last eternally, as Christianity conquers what is pagan in Rome just as the Christian God conquers Satan.

hope these are serious enough answers. I'll post further thoughts on the matter if you are really interested.

additions: just read your additional remarks thank you for quoting me, notice how I single out the "spritual coruptive nature of the state" you rightly elude to what is constructive of the empire in John's time and the future. For example, adminstration, economics, major infrastructure construction and so on. All of these form parts for lack of a better term the management structures of Christianity. The positive constructs of the Roman empire like roads and transportation also were the conduits of evangelism for early Christianity and that is primarily why Christianity spreads first to the cities of the empire including the capital Rome something neglected by revisionists who marginalise the conversion of the Rome to Christianity.

Answer 2

You got all that out of the Book of Revelations did ya? For your information the Book of Revelations is all about the Mass which is the Salvation history in it's entirety. If you really want to do some research read Scott Hahn's book "The Lamb's Supper" He was an Evangelical who set out to prove the Catholic Church wrong with history and researching the Early Church Fathers and lo and behold he ended up a Catholic. The Book of Revelation is the Revelation of a Catholic, St. John. He sees what it all is on the Lord's Day when he is taken up into Heaven which every practicing Catholic is during the Mass. They are present during the Wedding Banquet while they are still living on Earth during Mass and when their body dies they are changed in the "twinkling of an eye".

Answer 3

The reference is to the Roman Empire's persecution of Christians in the late first century. The number 666 refers to Nero Caesar. Get a commentary on the Book of Revelation by any Biblical scholar, Catholic or otherwise, and it will help you understand the book better!

Answer 4

There are 2 main theories as to when Revelation was written.

During the 19th Century, most Scholars placed the dating of Revelation during the time of Nero (mid 60s AD). Today, most scholars tend to place it during the reign of Domition (81-96 AD). During that time, Christians were under persecution from these Emperors. Revelation is written to Christians of that time reminding them to stay faithful against the Roman Empire.

So it is written against Rome. But Rome did not become a central point of Christianity until years later. It was the exact opposite in its early years.

IM me if you have any questions on this. I don't check yahoo Im very often, but when I do, I will reply.

Matt
_______________________

In regards to your addition:

It is a seperate question all together, but think the discussion has brought us to it. So glad to help answer it. Might be worth a 2nd post to get more responses, as people might not scroll back this far to get to the question.

I think John would definitely call us out on a lot of our lack of faith as a nation and as individuals. I think that is the job of a prophet...he is a prophet. Hence, he would do that.

I don't think he would necessarily look at how our culture is and think "that's evil because it reminds me of Rome." John didn't speak out against Roman civilization - nor did he even tend to speak out against the persecutions now that I think about it. What John wrote about were those people who were giving up on their faith because of this persecution. He reminded people to stay strong.

Matt, signing my name again.

Answer 5

Apostle John would agree with you, only when he wrote Revelation in his last years in exile in Greece, the Vatican did not exist and no Pope had been in Rome since the first (Pope Linus) from 64/65 CE.

+++The Last Apostle+++

+John, the last of the apostles of Jesus was the only apostle to be recognized in the writings of the church of Paul of Tarsus- christianity.

+Jesus founded the Nazarenes.
http://one-faith-of-god.org/new_testament/apocrypha/nazarenes/nazarenes_0010.htm

+ Paul of Tarsus founded christianity to counter the message of Jesus and distort its meaning.
http://one-faith-of-god.org/new_testament/apocrypha/founders_christianity/founders_christianity_0010.htm

+This makes the writings of John even more extraordinary- for he is walking a fine line between giving credibility to the religion of Paul and at the same time, trying to give us secrets of the truth.

+++The real satan+++

In essence Jesus taught through the gnostic texts:

+ The god of the Old testament, the "jealous god", the "vengeful god" that demanded sacrifices, that demanded blood and war was actually satan pretending to be god.

+ The true God, is the father of all things, a loving universal god who would never display willing hatred towards any of his creations.

+ The Sadducee High Priests, the religious leaders hide behind white robes and words of holiness, but in fact were evil satanists who practiced black magic and human sacrifice.

+ The way to salvation is through self knowledge and the respect of all knowledge, not the promotion of ritual and ignorance of the double speaking satanists.

+++The "John Code"+++

+ Forget the Da Vinci Code, the gospel of John and Revelation is full of incredible clues to the truth:

+"666" the of the beast is the exact number of years to the day of the destruction of the Temple of Solomon and the Temple of Herod;

+"Lazarus" is an aramaic anagram su-razal which means good or "holy man"- a clear label for Jesus, making all the Lazarus stories a way of transmitting what happened ot Jesus.

+ Satan is Paul of Tarsus.

Of course Catholic apologists, pr agents and spin doctors will protest, but John, the wise gnostic has survived 2000 years. Maybe one day, someone will write a book based on a real secret and reveal the truth of John's codes...

Answer 6

No, they just think, as I do that that book is impenetrable. Even Born Again bible thumpers have to admit that certain parts of the Bible are inexplicable. This is all they are doing. Really, Finnegan's wake is more comprehensible than Revelation.

Answer 7

Please read "Isaac Asimov On Numbers" for the most brilliant analysis of what Revelations REALLY means - a bunch of revolutionary Jews talking in a language that only they could understand because they were using "numerology" - something the Romans were clueless about.

Answer 8

Question back at you - sorry- but why would God create everything send most everyone to hell and destroy then create heaven on earth. Why wouldnt the supreme being do it right in the first place. Revelations is a fairy tale for adults

Answer 9

Let me say this in all seriousness. You sir have just been talked to by the Holy Spirit. If I were you I would be praising God that He has opened your eyes to the prophecies in scripture. I just tried explaining some things, but it would take waaay too long and this website can do a better job than I can. This amount of writing may seem daunting, but it is necessary. Hey, it is exciting material. This is the kind of stuff God has left us so that we might have confidence that His word is truth. I will pray that God will continue to speak to your heart about what is the truth and what you need to hear. The link to the website is below. I hope it helps, and I pray that you will give it some prayerful and thoughtful consideration while you do some research.

Answer 10

How can you possibly expect us to be serious when the topic is so asinine?

If you're going to be a religious fruitcake, you could at least have a sense of humor.