How do conservative Catholics in favor of the Iraq war reconcile that with papal infallibility?

Question

And if they don't believe in papal infallibility, why are they still Catholics, much less conservative catholics.

Answer 1

The Pope has not "solemnly taught" that the war in Iraq is not just using "papal infallibility."

+ Just War +

Catholics use the rigorous consideration of the “just war” doctrine to determine if defense by military force is legitimate.

Offensive war is never justified.

All the following considerations must be true to justify war:
1. The damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
2. All other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
3. There must be serious prospects of success;
4. The use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated.

It has been argued the pre-war Iraq:
1. Was not inflicting lasting, grave and certain damage to the United States;
2. Could have been influenced by diplomatic and international sanctions.

It is argued now that:
3. There is not a serious prospect of success;
4. The use of arms has produced evils and disorders greater than the evil eliminated.

The "new" philosophy of the United States to launch wars to get them before they get us can even be argued as an offensive war which would not be justified.

The Church has usually, but not always, left this judgment to each individual person.

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art5.htm

+ Papal Infallibility +

The Catholic Church teaches that the Pope is infallible at closely defined times.

The Pope is only infallible when he, in union with the body of bishops, solemnly teaches that a doctrine as true.

This comes from the words of Jesus to Peter (the first Pope) and the Apostles (the first bishops), "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" (Matthew 18:18) and "He who hears you hears me" (Luke 10:16).

At all other times the Pope can be just as wrong or sinful as you and me and be in need of forgiveness.

+ With love in Christ.

Answer 2

The Catholic doctrine of Papal infallibility only applies in certain, specific theological circumstances - when the Pope is in the special Pope chair, wearing the special Pope hat, and says that his next ruling on a matter of Catholic dogma is going to be Papally infallible.

It does not apply in everyday circumstances, and certainly doesn't apply to anything and everything the Pope does or says.

Papal infallibility has only been invoked once. Ever. It was a ruling on the Ascension of Mary, back in 1950, which stated that Mary was conceived without sin.

I don't believe in Papal infallibility (or any other Catholic dogma for that matter), but there is no contradiction with a Catholic disagreeing with the Pope over matters such as Iraq, or even other questions such as the use of contraceptives, or the ordination of women.

Answer 3

I don't get the question. What does one thing have to do with the other? You mean when the Pope said he didn't like the war? That's got nothing to do with infallibility. Papal Infallibility is only about matters of faith. If the Pope says he thinks it won't rain today, that doesn't mean it won't. He's not infallible on matters of weather. I believe Papal Infallibility has only been used twice in the entire history of the Church. The last time was in the late 1800's when the Pope declared that Mary's conception was without sin or immaculate "the Immaculate Conception." So, the Pope, like any human being, can agree or disagree with the war in Iraq, but his opinion isn't infallible.

I still don't understand what being a conservative Catholic has to do with it.

Answer 4

Hi my friend, The Papal Infallibility is where many people get tripped up. Pope Benedict sins, there is no doubt about it. However when he speaking from the chair, he can not be wrong. ------------------ Second question: Though Paul is making a generalization of all humanity, Protestants and Catholics alike would agree that there are exceptions. For example, a child below the age of reason is not capable of committing actual sin. By definition he can’t sin, since sinning requires the ability to reason and the ability to intend to sin. This is indicated by Paul later in the epistle to the Romans when he speaks of the time when Jacob and Esau were unborn babies as a time when they "had done nothing either good or bad" (Rom. 9:11). Jesus is another significant exception to the rule, having been exempt from actual and original sin (Heb. 4:15). If Paul’s statement in Romans 3 includes an exception for the new Adam (Jesus), one may argue that an exception for the new Eve (Mary) can also be made.

Answer 5

The concept of "Papal infallability" was created to patch up all of the shortcomings of the 'bible' as a slave control document. The 'bible' was written between 313 AD and 367 AD at the same time that Roman chattel slavery was being converted to serfdom. Almost immediately after all the slaves were made into 'christians' shortcomings of the 'bible' in the concepts of control started becoming evident. The "infallable word of god" scam had already been put in place and the 'bible' could not be revised, so the Pope was given the doctrine of infallibility so his utterances could be used to plug up the holes of control in the 'bible. The Pope can reconcile himself with any perceived conflict by simply declaring agreement, which quickly becomes 'the word of god' from definition of "papal infallibility". This doctrine had unexpected consequences for the Roman nobility. It allowed the Pope who had been created to be just a creature of propaganda to eventually acquire enough real political power to challenge the authority and power of the Roman Emperor himself, and survive as the only power of the original Roman Empire to exist today.

Check out http://www.angeloftruth.com

Answer 6

Nothing everything the pope says is infallible. Only when he speaks "ex cathedra", that is "from the chair (of Saint Peter) specifically on Faith and/or Morals are his teachings infallible.

The pope's comments on the Wat on Iraq were not spoken "ex cathedra", therefore they are not infallible.

The Church's Just War Doctrine, as it pertains to the War in Iraq, allow for the individual Catholic to make their own moral judgement.

So, you see, there is nothing to reconcile between an individual Catholic's take on the War in Iraq and the pope's take because the pope was not speaking ex cathedra at the time.

Most of the time, popes are not speaking ex cathedra. Infallible statements are few and far between.

Answer 7

When did Benedict exercise papal infallibility in regard to the war? Do you have a link?

Answer 8

how does that belong in the same sentence...... papal infallibility? the man is merely a man like anyone eles.
God Jesus and the ho;y spirit is only infallible

Answer 9

Sometimes the Church isn't always right. Why did Martin Luther nail his papers to the door? They weren't right.

People who don't favor this war for it's morality of ending this mad man of evils' rule then they aren't Christian. Like it or not it was the right thing to do. We're just stuck in their clash right now. While I'm not a fan of Bush and think he is the most arrogant President we've had the move was right.

Examples of this lunatic are all over the net. Once such brief detail is found on Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5pA59x72eg.

We are a compassionate nation. Christians as a whole are compassionate and even though the Church doesn't agree with this war think of this... Are they going to sit back on their thumbs while G-d brings judgement on the world? I hope not. I hope they are out trying to save as many souls as possible before the end.

Answer 10

the pope doesn't like the iraq war, i dont recall hearing this.

the pope is only infallible concerning faith and morals and catechism of the Catholic Church(its not like he can guess the superbowl winner and be right every time)

so there's nothing to reconcile it with, the pope is only infallible when it comes to the church, speaking from the throne of peter