Concerned about breeder?

Question

I'm buying a Lab puppy and have found, what I think, a good breeder. I am, however, concerned about the breeder. Please give me your advice whether you feel this breeder is good or not, based on what I know about her.

a. She has 8 female and 3 male dogs of which she breeds from.
b. She sells APR registered puppies.
c. She tests her breeding stock for hip dysplasia but not elbow dysplasia or PRA.
d. She keeps the dogs in her home but her home is very messy and dirty (eg. dusty, un-clean, messy etc.).
e. She has 3-4 LABRADOR litters per year.
f. She not only breeds Labs, she breeds English Bulldogs and Bloodhounds.
g. None of the pups she sell come with neutering contracts.
h. She offers a 1 year health guarantee, 3 day welcome-home health guarantee and a 2 year return guarantee.
i. She uses electric shock collars on all of her dogs unless over the age of 10.
j. The sire of my Lab pup is 5 years old and the dam is 10 years old.

Hard decision for me. Your comments/opinion?

k. She breeds female dogs until 10 years old and males until 9 years old.
l. She starts to allow puppies to leave their mom at 5 1/2 weeks old.
m. She does not ship out of America.
n. She enters her Bloodhound dogs in Tracking and her Labs in Agility.

That's really all I can think about.

Karen has bred many other breeds before. Which, to her, means she is reputabale and responsible and ethical. She has bred breeds like Chihuahua, Mastiff, Boxer, Irish Setter, Beagle and Dalmatian - plus another 10 breeds. TOO MANY in my opinion.

I'm also worried about what she actually does with the puppy money! Not that it's my business but really... she sells Labs for $600, Bulldog for $3400 and Bloodhound for $1400. She has an amazing car (I think it's an Audi or Ferrari), doesn't have a job (oher than dog breeding) and doesn't have kids.

The Lab litter is 3 weeks old and I have been over her home twice in the past 3 weeks. Both times there were clothes on the floor in every room but the kitchen and bathroom, the VERY SMALL backyard was covered in dog waste (you wouldn't think a dog could poop so much!) and her home smelt like... off fish, socks, dog hair and cigarette smoke!

Labs are the only breed that she genetically tests for health problems. She feeds her dogs that are under 6 years old science diet adult food (even if they are puppies) and the ones that are over 6 get a mix between dry Olroy and Beneful.

I'll copy what she said in her e-mail regarding payment.

Olivia, here are my 'Payment Methods' when purchasing a xxxxxxxx puppy from me:
(1) PayPal
(2) Cash
(3) Visa
(4) Mastercard
(5) Other Credit Card
(6) Money Order
(7) Cheque (must be able to clear within 5 working days)
(8) Please ask for other Payment Methods as they are subject to change without notice.

Answer 1

NO WAY!!!! There are too many red flags shooting up all over the place here. She breeds NINE and TEN year old FEMALES? That's too old even for a male, much more the female who has to carry the puppies. The younger, "more-valuable" dogs get Science Diet, but the older ones get Ol' Roy mixed with Beneful? Obviously her older dogs aren't worth anything but puppy money to her. She breeds THREE different breeds, and they're APR? Responsible breeders are AKC, plus they will check for ALL genetic diseases in ALL their breeding stock, they won't have 11 dogs, they DO NOT let the puppies leave at 5 weeks (they need to be with the mother until at least 8), and their home and yard will be pristine no matter how many dogs they have, not covered in disgusting filth. And they don't believe in using ELECTRIC SHOCK collars to keep the dogs from barking; they'll train the dog not to do so with humane methods such as identifying any issues the dog has. And last but not least, the most breeds any RESPONIBLE,ETHICAL breeder breeds is 2. Not 3, not 5, and nothing over that.

BOTTOM LINE: RUN!! DO NOT buy from this woman and allow her to keep exploiting her poor animals this way. She should be reported to your local ASPCA for animal cruelty!

P.S. Do you really want to pay for this woman's Audi/Ferrari, either?

Answer 2

I personally would turn and walk away from this woman VERY, VERY FAST!!!!
I am not familiar with APR. Are the dogs AKC registered? Not good that she test only for hip dysplasia. The elbows are not that expensive to have done at the same time as the hips. Sounds like she is trying to alternate the breeding of the labs somewhat, but not really sure.
I really don't like the fact that she is breeding the other 2 breeds as well. Are the bulldogs of championship bloodlines?
I really think she is breaking even as far as the labs, and the bloodhounds she is making a bit more money on these puppies. I think she is making her REAL MONEY ON THE ENGLISH BULLDOGS!!!
What is her problem that she can't keep the house clean and ESPICALLY CLEAN UP THE YARD.
The guarentees of the health, 3 day home-health guarantee and 2 year return guarentee sound pretty rountine. I would ask for references and ask what their thoughts are on this woman.
I am not fond of the fact that unless the dog is over 10 years old it has a shock collar on continually!!!
I personally think that she is not concerned with the spaying/neutering of the labs as they possibly are not of that high of a quality dog. ASK HER ABOUT HOW SHE DOES THE OTHER TWO BREEDS- SAME STANDARDS OR WHAT? I would be curious to see if she is the same with the other two breeds.
A puppy should NOT LEAVE THE MOTHER UNTIL AT LEAST 8 WEEKS OLD - NO SOONER!!!
What what you have written - I would start looking some more!!!!!!!

Answer 3

Run far and fast from this "breeder"!!!!
1) her dogs are NOT registered. APR is NOT a legit registry..it is what is known as a scam registry..the papers aren't worth the paper they are written on.
2) she over breeds her dogs and breeds them too late in life
3) she is against the law and an irresponsible breeder..puppies should NOT go to new homes under the age of 8 weeks.
4) using shock collars indiscriminantly is a very, very poor practice
5) she claims to "check for hip dysplasia" but does she have proof? does she have the actual OFA or PennHip certification to show?
6) she sells every thing on full reg..well if it was a legit registry it would be a red flag, since these pups aren't even really registered it doesn't make a difference..it's bogus anyway

This so called breeder is a very, very irresponsible breeder...a mill

Answer 4

There are some red flags in what you have listed about the breeder. The biggest being she is taking the pups from their mom at 5 1/2 wks. which is way too early. I would never get a puppy under the age of 7wks. with 8-10 wks. being the best. The part of her home being dirty and messy isn't good either. That's not healthy for a b*tch who is carrying pups. Does the breeder have proof of her dogs being up-to-date on all their shots and is willing to show the records to you? Are they wormed as needed? Does she have the bloodlines for every dog she is breeding and willing to let you see them for yourself? Think about it, a really good breeder will have all this and be willing to show you proof. They are also not into breeding for the money, but to improve the breed's health and temperment. I would actually have to see the breeder and her dogs myself to really make a sound decision on whether or not she is a good breeder.

Answer 5

Long answer short: this is an unethical breeder. RUN!!!

~She is not AKC.
~She breeds more than one breed. And you say they are all in her house? What proof is there that there is no breed mixing going on? How would she know?
~No neutering contracts, what about spaying?
~Only hips tested, not good.
~Filthy conditions not healthy for anyone.
~Only a 2 year return? A reputable breeder is willing to take one of their dogs back for the rest of the dog's life. 2 years, 10 years, or more, doesn't matter, a GOOD breeder wants their "babies" back.
~SHOCK collars?!?! WTF is with that?!
~Dams should only be bred a max of 3 times with about 18 months between litters. 10 years old is MUCH too old for this poor dog to still be being bred.

~Oh yeah, and -duh- selling puppies at 5.5 weeks old is SO not okay. In fact, in California it is not legal. Pups need to stay with their mommas until they are at the very least 8 weeks old, better yet, 10 weeks. Momma not only feeds them, she teaches them how to be good doggies, and they also get some social skills by being with their littermates.

This is a bad, bad woman. Do not buy from her.

Answer 6

Wow! This breeder is a puppy mill or a very bad back yard breeder.
Lab need more than just the hips certified. they need heart, elbows, eyes and thyroid too. She breeds her females way to old. I never bred my Goldens past 6 years old. The conditions of the back yard are disgusting. The fact that she will accept so many different types of payment put a red flag up for me.
The age of the sire is not a problem but the age of the dam is.I could go on and on but there's no reason to. YIKES!
Sorry but run do not look back from this breeder.

Answer 7

I think you are right to be suspicious. Although she has very good health guarantees, she is breeding way too many dogs. How many litters does she allow each dog to have during their life span? Ten is way too old to be breeding any dog. It almost sounds like this is a breeding factory created to make tons of money. She may not be a puppy mill, but she doesn't care enough about her dogs to keep their environment clean. That in itself would raise my suspicions about her. Good breeders really care about their dogs and would never allow a yard to fill with poop. It could cause all kinds of contagious diseases in the puppies, including parvo. Can you get any references from her? People who have previously gotten dogs from her? Will she give you the name of her vet and allow him to tell you about the health of her dogs? If not, RUN-don't walk away. There are plenty of other breeders out there.

Answer 8

10 is waaaaay to old to breed a female. No female should be bred over the age of seven at all, and ALL genetic testing should be done, not just the ones that most people think to ask about.
Keep in mind that any breeder worth a dime will only breed one, and maybe two breeds of dogs AND they will offer a LIFETIME health guarantee. By not offering a lifetime guarantee she is basically telling you that she knows that it is likely that at some point her pups will develop health issues.
I would find another breeder. Labs are the number one bred dog, so you need to be careful to avoid bad breeders. If you are not 100% comfortable about your breeder, walk away. It is not worth the heartache you will endure when your beloved pet develops a terminal or painful disease later in life and the breeder is not willing to help you.

Answer 9

I'm sure you will get alot of better answers from breeders. The shock collar is not an issue really....any tool (including a standard flat collar) can be used properly or improperly.

I would be concerned about the bitches age being 10 yrs old. She really needed to be retired by now.

I don't think dust or clothes on the floor etc. would constitute a "bad" breeder lol (as the dogs may be a BIG contributer to the mess in the first place) unless it's unsanitary (fecees, foul smell, old food laying around, etc.) I wouldn't think "dust" would hurt the dogs much :)

Sorry I can't be of much help on the rest of it. Oohh...read your additional comments........leaving momma and siblings at 5wks old IS NOT a good idea and sign of a BAD breeder big time.

Answer 10

I am a little concerned about the fact that she breeds her females up to 10 years of age. I work at a vets office and I know that they consider 7+ senior. Labs tend to live longer than other dogs but that is a bit much. I wonder what her vet thinks about breeding that late in life.

I know that the breeders around the vet office that I work at use kennels. I cannot imagine having 11 labradors in my home.

Good luck with your puppy!