Spiritually mature Christians - am I missing something....?

Question

This is a serious question. I've noticed a couple of posts / responses to posts on R&S asking people to provide scripture pertaining to free will. I know that God chooses us, but I have also read several scriptures that encourage us to choose:

Joshua 24:15
2 Kings 18:32
Prov 1:29
Prov 8:10
Prov 16:16
Isaiah 7:15
Isaiah 56:4
Phil 1:22
1 Peter 4:3

Is this not free will? If not, what is the meaning of the scriptures that encourage us to choose God's ways / discourage us from choosing our own ways?

chriscrosschrist - I don't agree with your last paragraph, because God IS a loving God - but He is also a righteous God who will not tolerate sin. That is why we need Jesus. His blood washes away our sins. I understand where you're coming from though. But in the examples you gave, you were still free to choose whether or not to pick up the gun even though you KNEW there would be negative consequences. I think I'm interpreting "free will" and "freedom to choose" to mean the same thing - but your examples seperate the two.

Answer 1

I took my time reading your question, and tried to understand it. I think that what you are touching on is the relationship between someone who is being guided by God to trust him, and it's application of freewill.

I would liken it to Jonah. Where he knew he was being led by God to do a certain thing, and he willfully went to another direction. We have that choice, all of us, at any time. The question is no longer, " Do you believe that there is a God" it's rather, " Will you trust Him?" And yes, that's an application of freewill as I understand it. And the thing about God is that he is so patient with us, and me.

So we can decide at any time to go our own way, even after being saved. But if God has his eye on us, and we go our own way, he can make things difficult for us. As he did me. As he did with Jonah and Samson, and Moses, etc.

But I'm still not sure if you are missing anything, but that's the way I see it.

Answer 2

God's gift of free will is not really free will. The concept of free will implies that there is some kind of actual freedom involved. We have free will to choose whatever we want, but anything other than what God wants results in the most extreme negative consequences possible (eternal torture). That is not free will. If we are supposed to choose a certain way, but do not, it is only free will if we do not have negative consequences for making the wrong choice.

Stop saying no and think about it for a minute. If I take a gun and shoot someone in the head, I have the freedom to choose to do that just as anyone has this freedom. The consequence is that I may be killed or more likely, I will go to prison. This is not an example of free will. If my dog chews up my slippers by choice, I will beat it. Again, this is not free will. If I stand on the sidewalk holding up a sign that says "Abortion stops a beating heart!" THAT is free will. I have freedom of speech, which protects me from negative consequences from a legal perspective.

God's supposed gift of free will is not free will at all, simply because there are penalties for acting upon this free will. It is slavery with threats of the most extreme consequences for disobedience.

If this god was truly a loving god, he could easily create the rules to be nonthreatening. You could choose him and get to be with him if you wanted. You could choose against him and get to be without him and also without torture if you wanted. This god is just about as loving as a husband who tells his wife "If you leave me, I will kill you."

Answer 3

There's a book that actually discusses this. It's called Maat: The 11 Laws of God by Ra Un Nefer Amen. It discusses the Ancient Egyptian stance on the question of free will. And since Judaism and Christianity are evolved from Ancient Egyptian Theosophy and Theology (even though far removed) it explains the ORIGINAL pre-Bible take on God and free will. The original explanation is not contradictory as scripture is. I can't really explain it because I've only begun reading about it and have not yet processed the information enough to truly have a firm grasp of it yet.

But I can tell you that the basic premise is that it is through free will that we learn and experience pleasure, but it is also through free will that we experience pain. Meaning we have a choice to dwell in the flesh through pleasure and pain, or pleasure and peace based on how we allow ourselves to react to certain situations. Peace is the absence of reaction (basically not letting things get to you, and not reacting). The example used in the book is you can enjoy your partner while (s)he is alive and be miserable and distraught when (s)he dies, or you can enjoy your partner while (s)he's alive and be at peace with the situation when (s)he dies by accepting death as a natural part of the life cycle.

It's really a fascinating concept. And as much as I hate to say it - while I'm not Christian, I'm beginning to finally understand some of the basic tenants of Christianity from this book. They just make more sense to me from the Kamitic point of view than from the Christian point of view. I guess that's why they say if you really want to understand something - go to the source.

Answer 4

God Does not grant anyone with this things called free will, God has given us an absolute will of 'CHOICE' God has provided us what we need, all we have to do is to exercise that 'choice' either good or bad.

God has given us knowledge, wisdom and understanding to determine our choice. whoever taugth that man has a free will is a liar. God is the only one who has free will - because he can create something out of nothing. Can we?

Answer 5

Thank you for the scriptures. I do agree that God gives us free will.

Here's my reasoning. If you love someone you want them to choose to be with you, not forced to be with you. Loving someone has to be from the heart, not out of duty or fear. That's why our God is a loving God.

Answer 6

It is obvious that we have been given free will in the scriptures. Those who are of God choose to follow him.
The verses that encourage us to choose God, are just that, verses that encourage us to follow God, and encourage a relationship with him.

Answer 7

We have a free will to choose God's ways, but only within limits of God's plan. Like we cannot choose to quit eating and still survive.

He did not want to make us as mindless puppets. He wants to know who loves Him back. If you do not like to worship and honor Him here, I would not like it in heaven either.

Answer 8

Yes this is the meaning of free will, that we are what we choose is the key. Discernment between the little learned self and the Christ Self within is the challenge.

Answer 9

Mat 20:16
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. (KJV)

Mat 7:13-14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (KJV)

Answer 10

strangly enough I brought that up at bible study today after reading acts 2
38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

I ask why is it God calls some and not others. the response was he calls all but not all will folow him. of those that do not all are josen to be the body of Christ.