Thinking of suing my breeder?

Question

I have a AKC standard poodle that I aquired from a breeder two years ago. On her website it states "(quote)Most breeders are line breeding and cross breeding so that the gene pool s limited and throws many faults so we are careful not to follow those practices and are insured larger and healthier genetics."
She mentioned when I got the dog that she studied the history of all her dogs to prevent line/cross breeding (aka inbreeding). The three generation pedigree doesnt have any multiples but I bought the five generation pedigree recently and found MANY multiples!! There is not a chance she sisn't know because even if you took the three generation ped. from both parents, you could clearly see line/cross breeding. My dog is inbred! I researched and found this isn't always bad if you follow certain methods, but it doesn't look like those methods were followed PLUS she PROMISED they don't do that. I told her what I know and she basically dodged it saying it was my ignorance so my fault...

All I want is the money I paid for the dog back ($900). She doesn't want to and I think I have a case to take legl action. Opinions???

I'm DEFINATLEY keeping the dog!!! I didn't make that clear. While it had social issues (she was a crazy puppy!) when it was younger, she has mellowed out into one of the best ive ever owned. I'm just upset because I would not have bought her originally (given emotional attatchment wasnt there yet) had I known. And I have her claim written and printed off her website so yes, I have proof.

I know all about line/cross breeding and I'm aware that all breeds are made this way. But she promised that the dogs in her control are not line/inbred within the pedigree and they most certainly are. I was reffered to this breeder after studying breeders for over a year. And she's pretty well known.

Again, I KNOW that inbreeding/crossbreeding has been necissary and I also KNOW that some people that know what they are doing are doing it successfully and I KNOW that it isn't all bad. The FACT is she told me my dog was not inbred and had NO inbreeding in her pedigree, three OR five generation. I've DONE my studies. I personally did not want an inbred dog, properly done or not.

The dogs in the third generation were line bred or inbred or whatever you want to call it. You just can't tell unless you look in the fiver generation pedigree where they pop up again. I have it in my contract that the pup was not inbred and I have the website printed out that states that none of her puppies are inbred within the three and five generation pedigrees

Answer 1

You need to look into dog breeding a little more. You don't have a case at all. Linebreeding and inbreeding are how your breed of dog were developed and if not for line breeding and inbreeding there would be no Standard poodle or any other breed. It is impossible to say which genes came from what dog in your dogs pedigree. It is possible that your dog is not even very closely genetically related to the dogs in the back of the pedigree.
Your breeder can not be sued for this. This subject is to big to go into on Y Answers but I suggest you go to the Standard Poodle Clubs web site and do some searches on how the breed was developed. and also search into linebreeding and inbreeding. It is NOT the same as it is with humans.
Do your homework and forget about suing her. You'll be barking up the wrong tree!
I don't know how long she has been breeding but she is not responsible for what happened 3 and 4 and 5 or more generations ago and I would be willing to bet a paycheck that the dogs back in the 4th and 5th generation looked better and conformed to the standard better then the dog in your living room. IF they came from a reputable kennel..You have a lot to learn here.

OK, Then just enjoy your dog (best one you've ever had) and stop with all the dam drama. Trying to sue a breeder over this is nothing short of ridiculous and laughable. I guarantee you that your dog wouldn't be so great if not for the linebreeding and inbreeding in the back of the pedigree. When you seek out a puppy you should look for a breeder who does do some linebreeding. WHo care what she promised you.. She likely was not lying. She has NOT done any line breeding or inbreeding in 3 generations. That is MORE then enough out crossing to remove your dog from those back in the 4th and 5th generation. Just enjoy the dog and stop looking for ways to get money that is NOT owed to you out of someone.

Edited to add.. What MOST people do not understand about breeding is that you can totally ruin a dog in one generation of the wrong outcross. You see all these back yard breeders who stake claim to CHampions or famous lines in their pedigrees that they had absolutely NOTHING to do with and they have these mutts they breed with anything that walks by and their dogs look nothing like the Champions in the pedigree. Every single true line of dogs with any success for years and years came from breeders who linebred and inbred. This type of breeding should NOT be avoided in a pedigree. It is what builds a line of dogs. You should be able to go to a dog show and look at certain dogs of your breed and recognize them by their type as they came from so and so's kennel. Again... you have a lot to learn.


WELL.... Go SELL your (best dog you ever had) on the corner then and get a MUTT from your local shelter. OR... stop whining and enjoy your dog.

Answer 2

Of course your dog is inbred. All purebreds were developed with inbreeding and line breeding. I think you are being silly and unrealistic. Even if you can prove she knew about the inbreeding in the parent's pedigrees, can you prove she bred them that way? It is very possible she simply acquired the best breeding stock she could and has since strived to prevent inbreeding and line breeding (which is silly by the way since it is the best way to ensure conformance). Inbreeding and line breeding is not wrong or bad if done correctly, especially nowadays with all the genetic tests possible. A well bred dog will conform to standard and be healthier too. Besides, two years is a long time. Usually you need to find something "wrong" with the dog within the first few days, months at the most. For you to just do the research on something that is apparently so important to you isn't going to fly in court. The judge will ask you why you waited so long to look into the pedigree if it meant as much to you as it evidently does. It sounds like you have an excellent poodle anyway. Just get over it. People are too ready to sue over every supposed infraction.

Answer 3

I think you do have a case here, but you may want to seek legal counsel of some sort (if $$ is tight, look for 2nd year law students - often they do work for free or for minimal amounts). Some concerns are the time it took you to notice this and why it suddenly matters so much.

But be warned, this is probably a small claims court type of issue. You can try to get her to go to court, but if she doesn't show up, there's not a lot you or the judge can do. And suing her for $900 might not mean much either. Of course, the fact that she has an outstanding lawsuit against her will limit her ability to get credit, jobs, refinance a house, etc. So you can try to do that, just to be an irritant. ;-) But you most likely will need a lawyer's help for that.

Bottom line: If the dog is perfectly healthy and you have no intention of breeding, showing the dog or returning it, then is there any true harm done? As you noted, many lines are inbred anyway. If your dog is healthy, then clearly this breeder knew enough to inbreed properly (and almost all puppies are hyper, so that doesn't point to a "problem").

If you want to sue or take her to small claims court, you can try - I'm just not sure how far you will really get in getting your money back. But you can sully her reputation - IF she is truly guilty of lying (be VERY certain you have all the proof you need). If she was actually deceptive and you have all proof (again, I'd consult a lawyer first), then I would spread the word about her deception. Post in newspapers. Post it online. Post it where you saw her advertise. If you have proof of her deception, she can't sue for libel as you are telling the truth. It still might not do a lot, but it might hurt her business a bit, which is the best you can hope for, IMO.

Good luck!

Answer 4

Since you've had the dog for two years and you didn't mention any health issues you're most likely not going to get a dime. If this was such a big issue for you, then you should have checked the parent's pedigree beforehand. The only time I've ever seen anyone get any money back was if the animal had a serious health problem. No judge is going to award you monetary damages since you were apparently perfectly satisfied with the dog for two years. They'll just say that for some reason you now want $900 and are using the pedigree as an excuse.

Answer 5

What are you saying by Inbred? Are there full sibling breedings, or father/daughter or mother/son breedings? How outcrossed is the pedigree in the 3 generations? Is she the one that has done these close breedings 5 generations back? You really do not have a case at all. You need to study pedigrees carefully, and learn about the lines some of the dogs in the pedigrees were line bred on.

ragapple you are right about different breeds! I went with a friend to look at a show beagle and could not believe how tight that pedigree was on that dog. It was something that we could never see in German Shepherds.

Answer 6

I am sorry that happened but do not hold your breath to get the money back she spent that already. My nephew bought a dog that cost over 2000 after flight costs and it died even though it was "vet checked". The only good thing is the lady was busted because we were not the first and she was well known. She advertised as a shelter but bred dogs to sell and was a hoarder. If you have documentation that might help such as her promise and guarantee in writing. And any poodle can have AKC papers that just means they are that breed nothing more. How exactly can you tell you dog was inbred I would like to know what to look for. Sorry again I hate people that are not up front about things. I would suggest joining http://www.nopuppymills.com and posting there they are very experienced in this type of thing. I am sure they can give you advice,Tell them angelmom7 sent you , take care ~A~

Answer 7

You will need to speak with a lawyer about this. Find one with experience in interstate commerce because I'm guessing you had to cross state lines to buy the puppy.

And what are you trying to accomplish here? Were you planning on showing or breeding the dog or were you loooking for a pet quality dog?

And what kind of reputation does this breeder have in the show ring? Or is she a puppy mill?

You just aren't clear here.

AND - DO you understand that you will also be paying your attorney more money than the dog is worth? Principles not withstanding, realize that this will be a long and protracted and expensive project - in which there will be no clear "winner."

That said, I wish you the best of luck. You might want to print out her website so you will have proof of her claim against inbreeding. Take lots of notes and keep all papers that cross your path.

Be sure to talk with a reputable attorney.

Answer 8

And after 2 years, you're willing to give the dog back? You won't get your $ back and be able to keep the dog!!!

From what I'm reading, yes there may have been inbreeding or linebreeding (depending on relationship) in the pedigree 5 generations back, but the male & female your pup was produced from might not have been related at all.

If she claims to have had the dog that are 5 generations back, yeah, you might have a little to go on, but not much.

Honestly, the pedigree research should've been done BEFORE you even bought from her. Now 2 years later you want your money back and want to keep the dog too. hmmm Good luck!

Answer 9

I think you are an idiot.

First off you have no case. You have to PROVE in a court of law what 'inbred' means by its LEGAL definition and not what you 'feel' that it means and then you have to PROVE in a court of law that the breeder knew what THAT definition of "inbred' is, then you'd have to PROVE that she deliberately violated that with the intent to defraud (ignorance doesn't count), etc.

It would take you $20,000 to hire a lawyer to fight a stupid suit like this and most would laugh you out of their office, especially since you bought this dog two years ago. The statute of limitations in your state/the breeders state may even prohibit a suit like this based upon how much time has gone by.

Does your WRITTEN contract between you and this breeder state in writting that this dog is not 'inbred?' If not, you don't have a ghost of a chance in any court. Even if it did say that in writing in a written contract (and not a sales pitch on a website), you still don't have a ghost of a chance over something so stupid as this.

Answer 10

All purebreds are inbred. All purebreds are more likely to have genetic diseases than mixed dogs. It is just a fact of life. Many, many unscrupulous breeders claim otherwise (even on this website), but it's simply true. A limited gene pool raises the likelihood of genetic deficiencies. At least your breeder was honest enough to admit that. She showed more character than most.

If you didn't have a written contract and are unwilling to give up the dog, you won't win in litigation. You would have to prove that she committed a fraud and that the dog is defective, plus you would have to return the dog. You can't have both the dog and the money. Caveat Emptor -- Let the buyer beware
Don't buy a purebred dog unless you are willing to take the risk of genetic issues or unless there is a written guarantee.