I once had a long (12 hour) discussion with a brother in law about religion.
He started out by saying he was an atheist, but believed that Jesus was the son of god. He had thought that because he rejected organised religion, that made him an atheist.
Having sorted him out on that one, he went on to say believing in god was logical and then I must have some core belief, that it was impossible not to. It took about two hours to get him understand that no, I really didn't believe in god.
But then, getting him to acknowledge that it was faith, not logic that made him believe in god took around 9-10 hours.
Finally, after peeling back all the layers of his belief and why he held them, he had to admit to the seed of his belief being faith, which then undermined his whole argument about belief in god as being logical.
How many others confuse faith and logic?
Why did he have so much difficulty accepting someone could really not believe in god?
2007-05-30 05:04:48 · 43 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Lion of..............that's a semantic argument, not a logical one.
2007-05-30 05:14:49 · update #1
airmaste...........No, he wasn't trying to evangelise. The discussion was not heated. He was genuinely confused. I get on extremely well with him and always will.
2007-05-30 05:20:57 · update #2
sonfai81..........just a matter of time? Where have you been for the last twenty years. The fossil record shows an evolutionary path that is astounding because of how full it is.
Sorry dude..........the links aren't missing, they were found long ago.
2007-05-30 05:24:17 · update #3
Thank to God, it was only 12 hrs.
I once had for 3 days ( other than time to sleep and eat )
Some people can't differentiate Logic and Faith.
2007-05-30 05:09:44 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 4⤊ 2⤋
To tell you the truth, you personally aren't secure or sure in what you believe and here your're trying to drag others down along with you, just because you want a reason to sin and not be self concious about it is the very fact of that and the good book does talk about people like you.
I know you think you made a decision to be an atheist but continue to read...
In return, we show you truth so that you can make the informative decisions for yourself as a free will after you've known the truth the very least. But to take life and all that's in the world for granted and declearing that there is no God is just pittiful. Open your eyes blind and see things all around you and ask yourself how exactly how in the world would they have came about. You might be an athiest but you might want to start doing researches that back up what Chritians believe and then decide for yourself instead of asking questions to recieve assurances from your fellow athiests and ansure Christians.
You guys might not believe in anything and that's why you have nothing to stand for but come around to try to get us to join you.
Like many Christians would tell you it isn't about any other nonsenses it's all about faith so take that and no words you can use can ever shake or move a true Christian to follow you. Keep that in mind!
And like all Christians, i am not judging you. Judging is wrongfully used these days. Judging is when you're getting condemned but we're our brother's keep and our jobs are to look out for them like we do for you guys we are asked to do by God in the Instructual Manual.
May God help you to open your eyes towards the decisions you're making and it's not too late to turn around. He is calling accept it and be healed from your hurts and pains, and have all your sins removed. Join a good Bible based church that doesn't preach on Sundays, be baptised in the name of the Holy Lord, get your self a NKJV Bible and and read up! God bless
P.s. your bro in law is a confused agnost and he needs the same help that you need.
2007-05-31 14:11:45 · answer #2 · answered by bEiNg DiScIpLiNeD 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Because if you look at the world around you and all that is in it, how it works together perfectly, how a baby is created inside a mother, how trees grow, and the circle of life is flawless, it is just difficult to understand how anyone could NOT believe in God. If there is no God, then how are we all here? No one will ever convince me that the earth and universe with all its wonders was created by something other than an all knowing, all powerful, loving, intelligent creator......that could only be God. I'm curious why you felt the need to spend 12 hours "peeling away all the layers" of your brother in law's faith. What's the point? Is it really so terrible for someone to believe something that you don't believe in? That's what bothers me about atheism. It's fine that you don't believe in God. That's your right, but how does it hurt/damage you for someone to believe in God? Why do you need to convince someone that believes in God through faith or logic or whatever it is, that there is no God? No offense, but I wouldn't have listened to five minutes of "peeling back" from you. I feel sorry for your brother in law for having to put up with something like this from a family member.
2007-05-30 05:14:51 · answer #3 · answered by Amy27 4 · 3⤊ 2⤋
Believe me I can feel for you. I ask myself this question often.
I think the answer often lies in the example "Chreece" has given us: that she can not imagine another way of thinking. It has simply never occurred to her.
That of course is not the answer for everyone. Many people are afraid of what may happen if they did not believe in God.
My idea, at least lately, is that their most base fear is that their life would have no meaning without a belief in God. You (and probably most of us as well) know that that is a very difficult problem to overcome (finding meaning in life).
I've asked many believers that IF we had a way of knowing weather there was a God or not, and the answer was no, would they want to know. Nearly half responded that they would not even want to know.
As for confusing faith and logic... well, almost all people want to think that they believe things for logical reasons (even if they do not). But you helped your brother in law do what many atheists are trying to do for most Christians - show them that they believe what they believe based on little more than faith.
That must have been a difficult conversation. I hope both of you benefit from it in the long run.
2007-05-30 15:05:35 · answer #4 · answered by skeptic 6 · 1⤊ 2⤋
The only way to worship God--is through Faith--"Without Faith it is impossible to please God." When Faith is established--Logic is available. If you set ground rules that deny others beliefs--You run the risk of close mindedness. Faith is acceptable in a debate forum--if agreed on at the beginning. Atheists deny Faith and go to Fact and proofs. These same people have a Faith in Scientific proof. Which is a contradiction to fact. These is not absolute proof of anything, Science does not allow for absolutes. Things can change. Thus Faith has to be implemented in Science. So the same amount of faith is used--in differing areas. Everyone must accept theories and then decide--that decision is based on Facts--but trusted by Faith.
Gods existence is by Fact based on Faith. It is a matter of choice to the individual involved.
2007-05-30 05:25:02 · answer #5 · answered by j.wisdom 6 · 1⤊ 2⤋
i do no longer insist on that. i'm specific you does no longer hate God. you have only had no celebration or reason to have confidence. possibly the somewhat some Christians you have had journey with at the instant are not that clever. yet they're disillusioned at you in my view because of the fact they sense you're settling for many decrease than you ought to and could't comprehend why. do no longer enable them to bother you. your very own progression is barely your person undertaking.
2016-10-06 07:56:22 · answer #6 · answered by ? 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Lion of's point is hardly simply a semantic one. Any time some asserts that "X" is true that is always grounds for asking that person "Why do you believe that X is true?" Just as you did with your brother-in-law. Nor is there anything peculiar about a disposition not to believe "Y" or *any* arguments for "Y." Lots of wiccans believe in magic of one form or another. I hold grave doubts. I am not particularly put off about having that disposition, either. However, if someone were to ask why I do not believe in magic it would not be an unwarranted question. In fact, the burden of reason giving is *always* with someone who asserts that "X is false." When that set of reasons is given then, and only then, does the burden shift to the other party. So, you may need to re-read Lion's response.
HTH
Charles
2007-05-30 05:38:00 · answer #7 · answered by Charles 6 · 2⤊ 2⤋
I think your brother-in-law is just an idiot. That's the first time I've ever heard of someone thinking that an atheist could still believe in a god.
I think the word he was searching for was agnostic. Are you sure it wasn't just a slip of the tongue? Or did he keep using the word incorrectly?
If you didn't know, agnostic means that you have a belief in something, but you don't really know what.
2007-05-30 16:02:21 · answer #8 · answered by tertiahibernica 3 · 0⤊ 1⤋
We Christians can be narrowminded. I do not force my beliefs on anyone else, but some do. God and Jesus is all that I have ever been taught, so FAITH makes me believe. Your bro. in law is unsure of what he believes. Sometimes we all assume that others are taught the same as we are, and it's hard for us to see things in a different perspective. Sorry...
2007-05-30 05:10:21 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 1⤋
Let's take your screen name here. Missing Link. There is no missing link but based on your interpretation of the surrounding evidence, you have faith that it's only a matter of time before it's found. There is nothing wrong with faith. Every one of us has faith in something and we use that faith every day.
To the reply - Stephen J. Gould, America's most famous evolutionist, stated, "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils. I wish in no way to impugn the potential validity of gradualism. I wish only to point out that it was never seen in the rocks."
Inference = faith. The links are still missing I'm afraid. All the basic plant and animal types appear suddenly and fully functional in the rock strata in what is known as the Cambrian Explosion. It's ok that you have your faith in evolution if you choose. For me, the evidence points towards a Creator.
2007-05-30 05:11:30 · answer #10 · answered by sonfai81 5 · 1⤊ 3⤋