Jehovah Witnesses: Can you prove your doctrines without the NWT?

Question

I know Jehovah Witnesses previously used the KJV. I assume the KJV is no longer used because it loudly proclaims the divinity of Jesus Christ. Whereas the New World Translation has tried to remove any trace of the Godhood of Christ. However, it is still unsuccessful.

It will have to be "edited" again. Even the NWT shows Mark 2:7b "who can forgive sins but God only"? We see throughout the Bible that God alone can forgive sins. Yet, you say Jesus Christ is the chief angel. How could a chief angel forgive sins? Jesus Christ repeatedly showed that He had not only the power to heal, but to forgive sins as He did for the lame man lowered through the roof and the sinful woman. To them both, Jesus said, "Your sins are forgiven" (Mark 2:5 and Luke 7:48)

Who can forgive sins but God? Jesus Christ is God.

Read the version you used to use: John 1 from the KJV-- 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Papa Bear: I do not use the KJV. The English used is archaic. I use the more readable, modern, literal transalations such as the NASB and the ESV that translate more closely to the heart and original intent of the text. I only use the KJV in this instance, as an example because it was widely accepted by the Jehovah Witnesses before the NWT came along. Thank you for pointing out the different versions, but your statements do not address my question.

Answer 1

Dear Jules,

You are so right! Jesus Christ is God in human form.

If He weren't then how could His death on the cross save each and every one who accepts Him?

How can there be 2 Perfect beings?

Have you seen One Truth Exposes a Thousand Lies - Traits Shared Between Jehovah and Jesus at http://www.soulright.com

One person said "I'd say that's a suspiciously high number of qualities that Jehovah and Jesus share. And since Jehovah God will not share His glory with anyone (Isaiah 42:6) it seems odd that the two have the same characteristics through and through!

Edit:
The related question is ... Can you prove your doctrines without the Watchtower?

Edit 2:
The LORD will not leave me alone on this.

Our Scripture lesson this past Sunday (before Communion) was Mark 2:1-12. You refer to it in your comments so I was not going to add more but you are right, they will have to edit AGAIN. Mark 2:7b shows the world that Jesus is God.

After church I looked at the NWT which a relative gave me 10 years ago. I had underlined Mark 2:7b and at the bottom of the page I had written -

Only God can forgive sins.
Jesus can forgive sins.
Therefore Jesus is God-on-earth.

For His glory,
JOYfilled

Answer 2

Is there a better example of a false prophet than the Watchtower? What is the Watchtower's batting record for prophecy vs. the Bible. The Watchtower puts themselves above the Bible as they are the only one allowed to determine what it means. Further, the Watchtower lies to its flock and encourages its members to lie in court. Not that the Watchtower allows many things to go to court. They usually agree to pay big sums of money with the agreement that the would be litigants do not talk about their settlement. They use an incorrect translation of God's name. None of the translators of their "Bible" was qualified to work on such a document. They lie about using source material. They add words to the Bible that are not there and remove words that are. Is this really an organization someone committed to God should be involved with?

Answer 3

Can you prove your beliefs without the Bible? I am not JW but I can prove my belief without a book. There is no physical proof or historical proof of Jesus being a god. If you look at the stories side by side, he sounds an awful lot like Hercules. Try to do what you say before you challenge someone else. There is no good end to this question.

Answer 4

Which KLV are you using?

It was completely revised four time, during a 150 year time period, before it sufficiently matched the teaching of the Church of England and could be Authorized. Despite that, it has been revised several more times, including this year.

Are you using the Authorized version, or one of the earlier ones?

If you are using the Authorized version, does that mean you agree with the British Bishop of the Church of England who last November gleaned from it that children born with birth defects should not be allowed to live?

As for the divinity of Christ, the NWT is not the only one that uses the proper form of the word for god in reference to The Word.

Of note, when you buy and read an Interlinear Translation of the New Testament, you find that the word "god" is spelled four different ways, and the Apostle John used all four.

But, he never used the same spelling for the word god in reference to The Word and to his Father. He does use the same spelling for the word "god" in reference to The Word, Satan, and men who are considered what? "God" or "a god"? Is Satan also God?

Try proving your beliefs using an Interlinear Translation of the New Testament, instead of a frequently revised version, names after a man who wanted his name immortalized in history.

Answer 5

Nope, they can't seem to even though the Bible clearly says, "All SCRIPTURE is profitable for teaching, rebuke and the building up of rightouseness (paraphase, you get the idea). So why do JW's need to source the WBTS everytime they respond?

Answer 6

Okay so you asked the question to Jehovahs Witnesses but if you don't mind I will answer too. I see other non Witnesses have answered but all theirs have been negative comments.
Did you ask this question to get an honest answer from JWs or is it to reinforce your own prejudices against them? - I suspect the latter.

Anyway, here's my opinion (not that I think for one minute you'll listen):
Whenever JWs have spoken to me on any subject I use my own version of the bible. Yes mine. They use theirs and I check mine. They say the same thing but worded different.

The funny thing is that I learned from another person on here who posted a question against JW teachings the scripture about the dead not being anywhere else (Ecclesiastes 9:5) I learned that from him, not a JW! (I did thank him)
My point is that it was in my bible - yes my bible.

Answer 7

(NASB)

John 5:22"For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,

27and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

30"I can do nothing on My own initiative As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Jesus is judge because Jehovah has given him the assignment. NOT BECAUSE HE IS GOD.


John 1:1

(NAB footnote)

2 [1] In the beginning: also the first words of the Old Testament (Genesis 1:1). Was: this verb is used three times with different meanings in this verse: existence, relationship, and predication. The Word (Greek logos): this term combines God's dynamic, creative word (Genesis), personified preexistent Wisdom as the instrument of God's creative activity (Proverbs), and the ultimate intelligibility of reality (Hellenistic philosophy). With God: the Greek preposition here connotes communication with another. Was God: lack of a definite article with "God" in Greek signifies predication rather than identification.

The Word with God is a quality not an identification,

Notice it is Greek (Hellenistic) philosophy that the trinity is based on.

It is not possible to be with someone and be that person.

To say the Word was God, is also improper English.

It is the same as saying: Snoopy was dog.

John 1:3 'by' him the Greek word translated as 'by' literally means the 'channel' not source.

It has the same meaning as a message being sent by messenger.

Notice that Prov. 8 is referenced in the NAB which shows Jesus was created.

22Yahweh created me, first-fruits of his fashioning, before the oldest of his works.

30I was beside the master craftsman, delighting him day after day, ever at play in his presence,


These are just a few of the many scriptures that prove Jehovah is the only true God.

(NASB) Col 1:15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Rev 3: 14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God,

Rev 3: 12'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

Disproving the trinity is easy. Proving the trinity requires misquoting and mis appling the bible, no matter which bible you use.

Proving the trinity requires using improper english.
Proving the trinity requires taking scriptures out of context.

edit for Anna

Thanks for the input.

1st: John was writing to humans so that humans can come to know God and Jesus.

(Ps 110: 1 The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is:
“Sit at my right hand
Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

Ps 2: 2 The kings of earth take their stand
And high officials themselves have massed together as one
Against Jehovah and against his anointed one,

1 Cor 8:5 For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

2nd. It agrees with the context of John 1:1 that God is with Jesus and that God(2) is a quality not an identification. (NAB footnote).

3rd. It is the (NAB footnote) that stated the Word and Wisdom of Prov. are the same.

4th. Prov 8 agrees with Col 1:15 and Rev 3:14 that Jesus is the beginning of the Creation of God.
Jehovah’s First born. (The sons of Joseph are still sons and not Joseph)

Lake of fire: Death and Hell are also thrown into the this lake. Are you saying hell is thrown into itself? Rev 20: 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Lake of fire means ‘second death’ not eternal torment.

Answer 8

For sure the NWT helps the Jehovah Witnesses. I guess they were getting beaten up with the KJV that the organization had to come up with something different.

Lets face it, John 1:1 in most any translation will give the JWs fits.

Its interesting that some JWs develop almost a hate for the KJV now that they have their own translation.

Answer 9

Yes.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God

Answer 10

They need the watchtower literature as well to explain their faith. It is the only thing that will help them explain a way around the clear interpretation that you and I see from the Bible.