Given the brutal history, how can anybody say they're Catholic and hold their head up?

Question

Is that really something to be proud of, given inquisitions, crusades and colonial holocausts?

Answer 1

Here are the indisputable facts that Catholic apologists, pr agents and spin doctors refuse to acknowledge, seek to have suppressed and attack as untrue.

+++The Vatican is responsible for the deaths of more people than any other organization/state in human history+++

Hundreds of millions of lives have been lost because of the Popes and the church. See the Almanac of Evil.
http://one-faith-of-god.org/final_testament/end_of_darkness/evil/evil_0120.htm

Lets look at some of the true "highlights" of the Vatican and Popes:

+++Crusades+++

The Crusades started earlier than the inquisition.

(1095 CE) Pope Urban II did publish a Papal Bull granting general amnesty for all criminals, robbers and thieves to join an army to conquer the Muslim lands and secure Jerusalem. That Pope Urban in releasing this new law did say to the assembled mass of criminals: “Let those who have hitherto been robbers now become soldiers.”

(1096-1099) That approximately ten million (10,000,000) innocent men, women and especially children are murdered and their property stolen by the army of Peter the Hermit, priests and peasants under the legal approval of Pope “Blessed” Urban II. That the wholesale slaughter of innocent people for nothing more than greed included Belgrade (1096), the chief city of Orthodox Church after Constantinople, Yugoslavia (1096), Turkey, Syria, Antioch (1098), and Palestine.

(1099): That Christian Knights, priests and members of the first crusade including freed criminals did slaughter every single man, woman, child and animal in Jerusalem, sparing not one soul upon the specific and clear orders and approval of Pope “Blessed” Urban II. That the death toll, from this clearly church sanctioned act was at least 150,000 to 200,000 people, of which at least 60,000 were Jewish.

(1146 CE) That upon the Papal Bull authorizing the Second Crusade by Pope Eugenius III on Muslims at Edessa; St Bernard of Clairvaux did declare: "The Christian glories in the death of the pagan because thereby Christ himself is glorified". Around 300,000 are murdered.

(1187-92) That Pope Gregory VIII did authorize through a Papal Bull the Third Crusade and did declares holy war on Muslims in Jerusalem as well as on pagans Cathars and Jews in Europe and England. As a result, approximately one million (1,000,000) lives were lost as a direct result and decisions of the Pope and Roman Catholic Church.

(1191) That Richard the Lion Heart did murder 3000 men, women and children outside Acre during third crusade. That the King of England did order the stomachs of these innocent people to be cut open in search for swallowed gems.

(1212) That Pope Innocent III did devise a terrible and evil strategy by issuing a Papal Bull authorizing children to launch their own crusade against the Muslims. Over the over 200,000 children that are released by the parents, a third die from the journey, a third are taken by the Catholic Church for ritual satanic sacrifices and the remainder are sold to slave traders for tremendous profits. Because the Papal Bull absolves the Catholic Church from all liability, neither the parents, nor sovereign nations can say or do a thing upon this evil act.


+++Inquisitions+++

(1181) That Pope Lucius III did establish procedures for Inquisitions as well as the conduct of torture.

(1198-1216) That Pope Innocent III did promote the Inquisition throughout Europe causing the murder of over one million (1,000,000) innocent people through terrible torture and public human sacrifice aimed at promoting the principles of Satanism.

(1198) That Pope Innocent III did issue a Papal Bull declaring "anyone who attempts to construe a personal view of God which conflicts with church dogma must be burned without pity".

(1227-41) That Pope Gregory IX did establish the first of three Holy Inquisitions in 1232 using the false texts of witchcraft created by his predecessor Pope Honorius III as false evidence of the existence of an alternate “evil” to the Vatican. Approximately 650,000 are burned alive through public satanic rituals during his Papacy.

(1231) That Pope Gregory IX introduces for the first time in human history the twisted and unjust notion of "guilty until proven innocent" replacing the ancient common law notion of "innocent until proven guilty" which had existed for over 6,000 years. In addition, removes the right to counsel, the right to hear charges against an accused, the identity of the witnesses making the accusation and notification to family and/or friends that a person has been arrested by the inquisition. This model forms the basis of the Catholic model of the Gestapo interrogation.

+++What would Jesus Think?+++

Jesus founded the Nazarenes also known as the gnostics.
http://one-faith-of-god.org/new_testament/apocrypha/nazarenes/nazarenes_0010.htm

The Vatican has known for almost 2000 years that it was Paul of Tarsus, not Jesus who founded christianity.
http://one-faith-of-god.org/new_testament/apocrypha/founders_christianity/founders_christianity_0010.htm

+ The Catholic Church has never been the legitimate body representing Jesus. It is an imposter, a fraud.

+ In spite of the overwhelming evidence of corruption, of morally bankrupt behaviour, of evil, many people continue to defend such action, to the point of attacking those who dare to raise it.

+ Until good people are prepared to take a stand against such evil, it will continue to thrive.

Answer 2

I'm a convert to Catholicism. The Church offers many opportunities, resources, etc. for those who want to know the historical facts to learn them. There seems to be a large empty space between some cradle Catholics and the truth. What I have found is many Catholics who do not know their faith and therefore cannot defend it, or are unaware that the faith is even being attacked. So, those Catholics do not stand up against the tides mostly because they have no idea they should, or they do not know the answer, and end up getting swept into the tide. i do think scholarly popes and bishops help bring an emphasis to apologetics. When a Catholic, or non-Catholic, goes looking for an answer it helps to have a Church that has well thought out and understandable answers. I spend a lot of time online and reading books that explain the faith and defend against the most common anti-Catholics claims. But the problem is that the erroneous information is so entrenched in Protestant belief, and it is regurgitated over and over without question, that many people never think for a second that it could be wrong. Even when faced with absolute, unshakable reason on certain subjects, the anti-Catholic will cling to their obviously flawed, flimsy stance.

Answer 3

Because what you re saying is based on English propaganda from the Elizabethan era when a newly-Protestant England was at war with Catholic Spain.

For the truth about the Catholic Church s alleged "horrors," read Henry Crocker s *Triumph*, Henry Kamen s *The Spanish Inquisition: A Historical Revision*, Diane Moczar s *Seven Lies About Catholic History*, and Steven Weidenkopf s *The Glory of the Crusades*.

Answer 4

You are talking about human history. Pick any religious, or non religious group and their history is also brutal. Even the Tibetan Monks, just before China took over, were using torture and incarceration to maintain power and dominance. Socialist countries in South America, and russia in the cold war days, banned religion and still had brutal regimes. It's the history of the human race. You should be asking can you hold your head up and be proud of being human ?

Answer 5

One might as well say:

Given the brutal history, how can anybody say they're Protestant and hold their head up?

Given the brutal history, how can anybody say they're Jewish and hold their head up?

Given the brutal history, how can anybody say they're Muslim and hold their head up?

Given the brutal history, how can anybody say they're English and hold their head up?

Given the brutal history, how can anybody say they're French and hold their head up?

Given the brutal history, how can anybody say they're American and hold their head up?

Given the brutal history, how can anybody say they're human beings and hold their head up?

A few human beings will fall to temptation and do horrible things. These few human beings do not corrupt humanity as a whole or the groups to which they belong.

The supposed "crimes" of the Catholic Church are also not quite as bad as the Protestant writers of history would like you to think.

+ The Crusades +

Muslim armies had conquered much of northern Africa, Egypt, Palestine, Syria, and Spain, which had been some of the most heavily Christian areas in the world.

Thousands, and possibly millions, of Christians died during this drive to bring the entire world under Islam.

Pope Urban II launched the First Crusade in 1095 to check the advance of the Muslims and regain control of the city of Jerusalem and the Holy Land.

I am sure that both sides committed some atrocities during this war but by most people's judgment, this was a just war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade

+ The Inquisition +

Modern historians have long known that the popular view of the Inquisition is a myth. The Inquisition was actually an attempt by the Catholic Church to stop unjust executions.

Heresy was a capital offense against the state. Rulers of the state, whose authority was believed to come from God, had no patience for heretics. Neither did common people, who saw heretics as dangerous outsiders who would bring down divine wrath.

When someone was accused of heresy in the early Middle Ages, they were brought to the local lord for judgment, just as if they had stolen a pig. It was not to discern whether the accused was really a heretic. The lord needed some basic theological training, very few did. The sad result is that uncounted thousands across Europe were executed by secular authorities without fair trials or a competent judge of the crime.

The Catholic Church's response to this problem was the Inquisition, an attempt to provide fair trials for accused heretics using laws of evidence and presided over by knowledgeable judges.

From the perspective of secular authorities, heretics were traitors to God and the king and therefore deserved death. From the perspective of the Church, however, heretics were lost sheep that had strayed from the flock. As shepherds, the pope and bishops had a duty to bring them back into the fold, just as the Good Shepherd had commanded them. So, while medieval secular leaders were trying to safeguard their kingdoms, the Church was trying to save souls. The Inquisition provided a means for heretics to escape death and return to the community.

Most people tried for heresy by the Inquisition were either acquitted or had their sentences suspended. Those found guilty of grave error were allowed to confess their sin, do penance, and be restored to the Body of Christ. The underlying assumption of the Inquisition was that, like lost sheep, heretics had simply strayed.

If, however, an inquisitor determined that a particular sheep had purposely left the flock, there was nothing more that could be done. Unrepentant or obstinate heretics were excommunicated and given over to secular authorities. Despite popular myth, the Inquisition did not burn heretics. It was the secular authorities that held heresy to be a capital offense, not the Church. The simple fact is that the medieval Inquisition saved uncounted thousands of innocent (and even not-so-innocent) people who would otherwise have been roasted by secular lords or mob rule.

Where did this myth come from? After 1530, the Inquisition began to turn its attention to the new heresy of Lutheranism. It was the Protestant Reformation and the rivalries it spawned that would give birth to the myth. Innumerable books and pamphlets poured from the printing presses of Protestant countries at war with Spain accusing the Spanish Inquisition of inhuman depravity and horrible atrocities in the New World.

For more information, see:
The Real Inquisition, By Thomas F. Madden, National Review (2004) http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/madden200406181026.asp
Inquisition by Edward Peters (1988)
The Spanish Inquisition by Henry Kamen (1997)
The Spanish Inquisition: Fact Versus Fiction, By Marvin R. O'Connell (1996): http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0026.html

+ Colonial Holocausts +

The Catholic Church does not colonize. Independent nations, like England, France, and Spain, colonize.

Which holocausts do you mean?

Europeans bringing disease from Europe to newly discovered lands did so in ignorance not to purposely kill the inhabitants.

The Spanish conquistadors were Spanish military with the mission to conquer new lands. Catholic missionaries were allowed to go with them to minister to both the military and the indigenous population

+ With love in Christ.

Answer 6

Why do you accuse the Church of brutality, then ask about executions performed by the Spanish government (inquisition), murderous campaigns by the Muslims (crusades) and holocausts performed by governments for political ends.

The Church is innocent of the charges leveled against it. Do some research instead of adding credence to urban legends.

Answer 7

I am Catholic, and I am not ashamed to proclaim belief in all things Catholic.

Neither you, nor your revisionist history is going to change my devotion to the Church, or the Nature of it's Truth.

Someday, you and I will no longer be alive on this planet. Your lies will die with you. The Truth of the Catholic Church will thrive "unto the end of the ages".

Answer 8

Men will be sinful the Church is not. The Church is and has always been where the truth can be found on faith and morals. The fact is that men are sinful creatures and the teaching of the Church clearly points to this fact. The Church is 2000 years old and there have been sinful men who hurt the testimony of the Church by succumbing to the temptations that are our human condition. What we can feel assurance of is the truth of the words of Jesus who promised that the gates of hell will NEVER prevail against the Church. He never said there would not be sinful men within or that sin and evil would never attack the Church but that it would prevail above these attacks and remain the "bulwark and ground of the truth". We can be assured as we consider the Church today that all the slings and arrows that have been sent against those gates that Christ's Church remains within His promise and that it is an example of what we can endure through sin and still realize Christ's promise of salvation through His Church.

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

Answer 9

In history, pretty much all Religions and Countries have some past that is not pretty!

There are a few points here.
1. Don't make the same mistakes again
2. What good are they doing today?

Answer 10

Easily. The acts committed by rotten people do not define our faith. There have been, and still are, rotten apples in EVERY religion.

How do reformers hold their heads up, with the salem witch trilas, and the hatred Martin Luther started towrds Jews?

Answer 11

Every religion has a brutal and bloody past. And don't forget that when these things happend there wasn't a "Catholic" church...only a Christian one. So that gets laid at ALL your doorsteps if you want to take that route.
You can't blame someone for what thier fathers did. The sins of the father are not the sins of the son.
Get over yourself.