Why are "professional" breeders on this site so angry?

Question

They keep posing as concerned dog owners, bashing everyone that they call backyard breeders (those who do not mass produce dogs like they do), trying to convince everyone that only they breed for the good of the breed, that shelters are filled with dogs produced by other people (never them) and that no one else carefully plans their litters. If their only concern is betterment of the breed and not making money, why don't they give their puppies away for free? And why push their agenda through "questions"? And why get so angry and start **** at people who disagree with them?

Sadiejane--I do understand the difference. I own 4 dogs that I show. I have been showing for about 5 years. I am active in my breed and breed club. My dogs are spectacular. I understand the health issues in my breed. I have never bred, but want to this year. I want to breed one litter because I think my dogs will produce great pups. That makes me a "backyard" breeder. Why am I so hated?

By the way, I bought all 4 of my dogs from top of the line "professional" breeders, they are all from champion lines, and the breeders were also top names in the breed, nationally, and involved in the breed club, one of them president of the national breed club. How does that make me "irresponsible"?

Dalai--you are one of the ones that I am referring to, as you constantly do this. FYI--my dogs are national and international champions, have been shown and WON, obviously, and their parents were national and international champions--including WORLD DOG SHOW winner. You make a lot of assumptions that simply aren't true--what are your credentials? ??

Answer 1

If someone is calling themselves a responsible breeder and is attacking or bashing you; they simply are not responsible. They are either worried about you cutting into their profit or they are jealous.

Do you see me attacking anyone?

No

I breed; I am responsible; although many a time I have been bashed only to find out the basher is a scammer and breeds rescues.

I find if a true responsible breeder is going to try and educate someone then honey catchs more flies.

Answer 2

Here is a matrix that kind of classifies breeders for you.
http://www.shilohshepherds.com/puppyBreeders/breederMatrixv4.htm

You sound a lot like a "hobby breeder" to me. So have a look and see if the "label" fits.

I've been raising and showing dogs for over 50 years. I have nine AKC titled Champions living here at this time. At one time or another I have served on the BOD of three different National Breed Clubs, and I'm still not a "professional breeder", and never have been.

Point blank, don't be quite so thin skinned. There will always be people that do nothing but criticize.
Remember too that there are many on this board that are PETA freaks. You may not like what they have to say, but they have the same right to say it as you do.

QUOTE
"The reason pure breeds have genetic problems it that they have been bred too closely which is how the breed was created and you will never do away with the health defects that can arise."

Absolutely not true. The odds of putting two dogs together that posses the same recessive gene is a constant (never changes) regardless of if they are even the same breed. It is the knowledge that a dog is a carrier, and breeding it anyway that is irresponsible.
The perception that pure bred dogs have more health problems than mixed breed dogs is caused because health issues in pure bred dogs are tracked, and health problems in mixed breed dogs are euthanized and forgotten about.

Answer 3

OK just to clarify, a breeder does not mass produce, that's a puppy mill. as the daughter and sister of a breeder i can tell u why pure breeds cost so much, first off u have to start with a good dog (expensive) then u have to pay vet. bills (more expensive) then there is just ordinary up keep, kennel licenses,whelping beds,pedigree papers etc. then i would be hesitant to get a dog from some one who calls dog breeding a professon, dog breeding should be done for the love of the breed not the money, and of course people can get mad about any thing.

Answer 4

Like any profession some are good and professional and some are obtuse and like to think they know everything. The professional ones out there - well the quality of their dogs speak for themselves.

Over breeding is a huge problem and most if it is due to the consumers desire to have the "In" dog of the moment. Usually brought on by movies - "Men in Black" - Pugs, 101 Dalmations - Dalmations etc..the irresponsible breeders thrive on this as do the puppy mills and pet stores.

There are also no guarentees in life. Even buying from a reputable breeder your dog could develop a health problem brought about by so many different variables. I have a rough collie that came from Championship bloodlines yet he has idiopathic epilepsy since age 10months.

Most breeders are very knowledgable about dogs in general and especially their breed. What bothers me sometimes is when they give new puppy owners bad or incorrect advice on medical issues. I am a vet tech and I cannot tell you how many patients have come in over the years spewing garabge that came from their breeder. Hopefully most breeders are more responsible than that. I have to say I have seen it on here and it bothers me too.

I think when you are posting on this site you need to evaluate the answers using your own judgement and take the answers that you feel most comfortable with and just ignore the ones that bother you. If you are asking a question you are always putting yourself out there for good and bad advice.

Answer 5

This is a very hot topic for all dog lovers. Professional breeders are in a business to make money from their puppies. Backyard breeders are often doing it for the same reason, except a lot of them don't do the research to ensure their puppies are healthy and well-cared for. Some just don't have the money to pay the enormous vet expenses involved in having a litter of puppies. If you are having a litter of puppies because you think your dogs are the best ever, you should keep all the puppies. Any sale of the puppies means you still wanted to profit from the experience. The worst anger on this topic comes from the reality that there are so many abused and abandoned puppies in this world already, how responsible is it to continue to breed for money?

Answer 6

Oh brother.. Spend some time reading the questions on here.. This is just a small cross section of the population.. People generally shouldn't even have a dog let alone be breeding it.. If you can't figure out when you should go to the vet, you shouldn't be having a litter. If you can't figure out why your b itch has blood coming out of her and she's in heat, then you shouldn't be having a litter. If you think that you should breed your dog cause she has a cute face, but tried to kill the mailman, then you shouldn't be having a litter..

If people can't stop abusing dogs, abandoning dogs, can't stop fighting their dogs and making them aggressive, what makes you think they should be breeding them..

Breeders can't recoup some of their costs? Plus it's a well known fact that cheap or free dogs are NOT taken care of properly.. How many questions do you see where someone wants a cheap dog.. Then they want to get a cheap home remedy to fix something cause they can't afford the vet, feeding crap dog food..

If the animals that are here were being taken care of and people were willing to be responsible for what they produce, and they were taking care of their own dogs, then what the heck, do it. If you aren't going to do it right, then it's just like anything else, don't even bother, you do more harm than good..

If you don't measure the ingredients when you make a cake, your cake turns out flat and tastes like crap.. Why bother wasting the ingredients and the time..

When it comes to dogs it's even a bigger deal, you can't just throw away puppies when you produce something you shouldn't have.. Put more thought into things, have some pride, use the commonsense that God gave to people.. If you aren't going to do that, then leave it alone instead of making it worse..

Answer 7

I agree with most of the posters. Why can a responsible breeder not breed 2 or even 3 breeds that he loves. If being responsible means you can only love one breed than I fear a lot of show breeders are irresponsible. AND some of the responses saying well we breed the perfect standard of this breed so it's ok and then saying if you have even one litter and your not a show breeder you are taking away the chance of a dog in a shelter being rescued , you are a hypocrite. AND as for show breeders saying they only breed to better the breed and one day if they are bred right they will have no health problems in the breed is silly . Use common sense. The reason pure breeds have genetic problems it that they have been bred too closely which is how the breed was created and you will never do away with the health defects that can arise. They will always be in the breed and may pop out of dogs that have had clean health testing for generations back. As long as show breeders can make themselves feel superior to other dog lovers , they will always be around and there will always be a divide. It is useless to try because neither side will ever give.

Answer 8

I think you are confusing breeders with puppymills. Puppymills are the ones that mass-produce dogs.

Here is a short overview, definitely not all-inclusive, but it will give you an idea:

* A reputable breeder will not have multiple breeds, and rarely multiple litters at the same time. The dogs are not constantly bred, and a female usually will only have 1-3 litters in her entire lifetime.
* A reputable breeder will have a contract that if for some reason, whoever bought the dog can no longer care for it, that it must be returned to the breeder, and NEVER go to an animal shelter.
* "Professional breeder" has connotation of doing it for a job or making profit. A reputable breeder doesn't make any money, in fact, they often lose money on a litter of puppies. However, it is extremely expensive to raise a litter of puppies. Health checks, vet bills, showing the parent(s) to ensure quality, etc.
* A reputable breeder is very selective of the dogs they breed, breeding only the best specimens.

* A backyard breeders breeds because they think they will make money.
* A backyard breeder breeds because "their dog is AKC registered, so it must be quality!"
* A backyard breeder has usually never shown their dog.
* A backyard breeder thinks "having a litter of puppies will be fun!" or "having a litter of puppies will teach my children about the miracle of life!"

* A puppymill breeds mass amounts of puppies.
* A puppymill breeds multiple breeds of dogs.
* A puppymill does not properly care for their dogs, not meeting social/mental needs, not medical needs.
* A puppymill breeds a female nearly every heat, forcing her to produce many many litters of puppies in her lifetime.

Answer 9

You raise some interesting questions. Remember that no one really even has to file a profile on this site, let alone provide credentials of their expertise or accomplishments to establish any kind of credibility. That omission easily creates an environment whereby people can challenge anyone and everyone. It also allows them to rant, grandstand for their personal or political agenda, and misrepresent themselves.

People who are out there in the show ring nearly every weekend and also breed really do not have enough time to post on this site--especially on weekends--because there are shows every weekend all over the country. Also,people who are in the top 10 of their breed often add other breeds to their interest for the show ring, breeding, and eventually to qualify for a judging license. The top dog of the year in my breed, the Papillon, is owned by a professional handler who also shows and breeds Mastiffs and also Samoyeds--and has produced top dogs in those breeds as well. Their Papillons have been in the top 5 forever. It is a marriage of handlers--who combined their preferred breeds.

Also keep in mind that all AKC judges must have bred at least 3 litters and produce 3 champions from those litters before getting a judging approval for that breed. Of course, they must also pass a written test on the breed, observe others judge the breed, and before getting a provisional judging license. Getting final approval for the first breed typically takes 5-7 years. Most judges are former breeders for the show ring or professional handlers. Judges will seldom get any judging assignments; however, if they are only licensed to judge a single breed, so they try to get approval for a larger number of breeds, especially in the same group. That is why judges are also required to breed litters that produce champion offspring of the different breeds before they are qualified to judge a group--and approved to judge 3 of the 7 groups of dogs in order to become approved to judge Best in Show. It is common for judges to have bred several different breeds during their careers as they add more breeds to their list of approved breeds. That is a natural progression of the judging career.

I guess for some name calling is easier sometimes than examining one's own contribution to the breed or examing the process whereby we determine who is really qualified to decide which dog is sound, healthy--and a good representative of the breed as described in the standard.

Answer 10

I've been offered pups for free- my sis GOT one free - from those "professional breeders" Most of those deriding BYB are either not breeders or are hobby "show" breeders who breed perhaps once a year after continuous networking for decades, research that took YEARS, worry fuss, hundereds of dollars of genetic testing, and still occasional get a shocker. Hard to believe the person whos on here asking "how do you know when to take the female to the stud" did any of that and dang if its easy to blieve they are sure they are not putting a major health problem on both sides of a pedigree decided by the male closest to them.

Edit: Honey I don't see you asking stupid questions of getting angry answers - You seem to be well on the way to being a responsible breeder should you breed a litter. Are you projecting angy answers toward questions on this forum that are so stupid It's hard to say any thing but DEAR GOD as being toward you when they are not? OR you've been hit by a poor looser at a dog show and are projecting here......Or your falling for the PETA types objecting to any dogs being born ever (one generation & out)?

Answer 11

That is because some people come on here and ask stupid questions. If some one is going to breed their dogs, wouldn't you think that they would have already done a little research on the issue? Sure does not look good on some of them. That is why the questioning of BYB's come about. They breed and do not know what they are doing. It makes the rest look bad. And it actually makes some mad that some people are just breeding with out knowing anything.

I don't mind helping people, but when they are dumb, as in......I seen this question on here it was something like........if my dog is in heat and neither the male or female ( brother and sister) are fixed and they were stuck together, do you think she is going to have puppies? They did not think so because her dog was a girl,. DUH!!!!!!!!!! where do they think puppies come from if they don't come from the female ? Well what do you think? Those are stupid questions. They should not be breeding.

A good breeder knows how to handle most situations. If they don't they will have called their vet for answers or another breeder to ask if they have had a certain situation and what they had done to correct the problem.

I don't "mass produce" puppies I only have 2-3 litters a year. Some years I only have 1.
I have waiting list for my poms. I do tell the people that it may be later in the year or next year before I will have a litter, and if they find a different pom they like from someone else, then to go ahead and get it. Most have come back to me or kept in touch with me. Right now I have a waiting list for 5 poms.

Another thing I barely break even, what with vet, and their up keep and food and such. And evenif I do come out with a small profit, it goes right back into my dogs. A good breeder knows what it takes. My dogs are not cooped up in cages, they get the run of the house and the large fenced in yard, the only time they are kept in another area is when they are in heat and I do not want them bred. That is 3 weeks of pure hell. A BYB sure as heck would not know what it is like for those 3 weeks.

I have turned down 3 people this spring. A BYB would not have done that. One wanted a little Bichon, but was going to be gone almost all day. I told her that they do not do well in cages all day, and wouldbe very hard to house train ( I will not have any of my puppies kept locked up) She was nice about it though.

Another lady came and wanted our little male pom, because her horny dog needed a companion. I told her that a tiny pom is not going to be mauled by a big dog and refused to sell it to her.(She got pissed and left huffing, too bad) DUH! They were both males, you can't get much more stupid then that can ya? Yep they can.. Get this......... another lady called that same day asked about the bichon pup. I gave her directions, It sure did not take her long to get here... She looked at a female bichon. .She said her dog needed a friend because they lost their other dog and her dog was horny all the time. I told her I would not sell my puppy to be bred time after time to and fix her other dogs problem and suggested thay they neuter their dog, before even attempting to get another. She got mad because I would not sell that pup to her. Thats when I looked out and seen who was in the car, it was the first lady I talked to. There ya go, Those two ladies are a defination of a BYB!

Almost everyone in my town knows my poms and bichons.

We walk them all the time. People come by to stop and play with them if we are outside. They love my little dogs. They are well socialized. Love kids especially.

So don't knock us until you have been in our shoes..... We do the best for all of our dogs.They are all considered a part of the family......

But when people ask stupid questions sure some of us are going to get a little hot under the dog collar.