If all popes are infallible?

Question

How can the current pope over rule the ruling of a former pope?

Pope Pius X had declared in 1905: "Children who die without baptism go into limbo, where they do not enjoy God, but they do not suffer either, because having Original Sin, and only that, they do not deserve paradise, but neither hell or purgatory."

Now: THE Catholic Church is preparing to abandon the idea of limbo, the theological belief that children who die before being baptised are suspended in a space between heaven and hell

Did God lie to his original spokesman?

Answer 1

Great question. Sadly, you will never get a straight answer from the Catholic apologists, pr agents and spin doctors on this subject.

Some will claim that procedural matters such as being seated in a chair are required in order for a statement of the Pope to be infallible- a laughable, simplistic and ultimately incorrect response.

Others, will claim that infallibility only operates when the Pope is in some magical "union" with his bishops and the church and states what he says is true- again a misinformed and deliberately spun incorrect response.

To get the truth, let us look at the specific effects of the actual document Pope Pius IX published- the Papal Bull Pastor aeternus in 1871:

(Par #11) "...that the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra, i.e., when exercising his office as pastor and teacher of all Christians he defines, by his supreme apostolic authority, a doctrine of faith or morals which must be held by the universal Church, enjoys, through the divine assistance, that infallibility promised to him in blessed Peter and with which the divine Redeemer wanted his Church to be endowed in defining doctrine of faith and morals; and therefore that the definitions of the same Roman Pontiff are irreformable of themselves and not from the consent of the Church.

(Par 12) If anyone should presume to contradict this definition of ours - may God prevent this happening -, let him be anathema.

(See: Full Papal Bull
http://www.womenpriests.org/church/pastor.asp

So it is pretty clear by the Papal Bull that was used to create the concept of Papal Infallibility that the Pope is generally infallible on virtually all matters- unless he expressely states it as his own personal opinion- an extremely rare event.

So you are correct in that the Pius example shows the popes are far from infallible and that they contradict one another. But unfortunately, this does not stop the Vatican from claiming the Pope above all human laws and above all humans.

Jesus was human and never claimed to be infallible...

Answer 2

We will stay inside this belief system. You are right the Pope is infallible and what you are saying seems to show a contradiction in the belief or use of that infallibility.

But! The Pope is only infallible in matters of Dogma, only. There was never an official dogma regarding babies and Limbo. There were thoughts and ideas, some doctrines set up, but no official, papal decree regarding this subject, so without that, one pope can contradict another without the Church contradicting its belief in the infallibility of the Pope.

In this year's statements from the Catholic Church's International Theological Commission, as you know, there was a document signed, titled: "The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die Without Being Baptised."

The Document--not Dogma or anything close to it-- says that the study was made in part because of "the pressing pastoral needs" caused by the increase in the numbers of abortions and the growing number of children who die before being baptized." Pope Benedict XVI has approved the report.

The Rev. Luis Ladaria, a Jesuit who is the secretary-general of the Commission said "We can say we have many reasons to hope that there is salvation for these babies." He said that we cannot know their fate with any certainty because Scripture is largely silent on the matter.

Note: to "hope" and to state that nothing final can be said, because there is no Scripture on the subject of babies and Limbo is a far cry from any kind of Decree or Dogma made under the infallibility of the Pope regarding spiritual matters.

Answer 3

+ Papal Infallibility +

The Catholic Church teaches that the Pope is infallible at closely defined times.

The Pope is only infallible when he, in union with the body of bishops, solemnly teaches that a doctrine as true.

This comes from the words of Jesus to Peter (the first Pope) and the Apostles (the first bishops), "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" (Matthew 18:18) and "He who hears you hears me" (Luke 10:16).

At all other times the Pope can be just as wrong or sinful as you and me and be in need of forgiveness.

+ Limbo +

The Church has pondered the suggestion of Limbo for a few hundred years and has decided that it is not a good idea. Limbo was never official doctrine.

Jesus said, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved." (Mark 16:15-16)

For centuries, people have wondered about children who died before they were baptized. The Bible does not explicitly state that they will go to heaven.

Limbo was suggested as the place where unbaptized babies went when they died. This idea was never official Church doctrine and has been rejected.

The Church now says that it is not sure what happens to unbaptized babies when they die but she entrusts them to the mercy of God.

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2.htm#1261

+ Now back to your question +

Pope Pius X was not "in union with the body of bishops, solemnly teaches that a doctrine as true" and therefore can be overruled.

With love in Christ.

Answer 4

>>Now: THE Catholic Church is preparing to abandon the idea of limbo, the theological belief that children who die before being baptised are suspended in a space between heaven and hell<<

Strange, since the pope just authorized the publication of a document which states that the theory of Limbo "remains a possible theological opinion".
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

>>Pope Pius X had declared in 1905: "Children who die without baptism go into limbo, where they do not enjoy God, but they do not suffer either, because having Original Sin, and only that, they do not deserve paradise, but neither hell or purgatory."<<

I Googled that quote, which resulted in hits, however, the name of the alleged document is always strangely missing...
According to one site, the statement was not infallible:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/limbo2.htm

Answer 5

Wheen a Pope solemnly declares that he is speaking from "the chair of Peter" (Ex-Cathedra) he is spreaking infallibly.

This has occured twice, over the last 2000 years, and it was not the case in your example.

Unless the Pope declares his intention to speak infalllibly in this way, his comments may carry various levels of "weight" ... depending on many different factors.

The most significant and complete infallible teachings of the church can be found in the various councilar documents, which are combined works of all the bishops, in union with the Pope, according the grace, power, and presence of the Holy Spirit, who has been assigned to guide the church, and to keep it from teaching in error.

Answer 6

A papal bull, or ruling, last only as long as that Pope lives.
Now a Pope being doctrinally infallible while he lives, offers orthodoxy and unity.
Christ set up his church on earth to be malleable.
As far as what you say about Limbo< no big whoop.
You should probably research the last 100 years since then.

Answer 7

The Catholic Church teaches that the Pope is infallible at heavily defined circumstances. The Pope is purely infallible whilst he, in union with the physique of bishops, solemnly teaches that a doctrine as actual. This comes from the words of Jesus to Peter (the 1st Pope) and the Apostles (the 1st bishops), "in spite of you bind on earth would be sure in heaven" (Matthew 18:18) and "He who hears you hears me" (Luke 10:sixteen). in any respect different circumstances the Pope may be purely as sinful as you and me and be in want of forgiveness. With love in Christ.

Answer 8

This pope is smart enough to realize that if people pray in a language that they can actually understand, it will drive them away. The idea of removing limbo is so goofy that the only reason why he could be doing it is to try to make his mark on history. This pope is full of poop.

Answer 9

Limbo, space between heaven and hell. That is the most ridiculous.......... The pope has no idea what he is talking about, and will be judge for it.

Answer 10

NO man on Earth can claim to be infallible. Not even men chosen as popes. Nowhere in the Bible is there such a thing as infallibility awarded to anyone in Christian administration.
So, how can the Catholic Church claim that their highest priest is infallible or make up things that are not biblical?
Popes cannot write addenda and say they are God's enclosures to His Word. That is a denial to what INFALLIBLE means. It's like admitting that God made a mistake not including their personal theology in the Bible.