Do Catholics Denounce the Cross?

Question

They believe in Purgatory (Not Biblical) If Jesus dies on the cross for sins why would you need to go to purgatory.
I'm Christian and I find alot of people turn away because of catholics

Honest Answers please,this is not hate against the catholics.

I'm not saying Catholics aren't Christinas.

I'm not saying I have all these rights before God.

Answer 1

I do agree that Roman Catholics throughout the world engage in much superstitious nonsense. When people are seeing the Virgin Mary in the glass of buildings, apparitions throughout the world, and in cheese sandwiches this turns people away from taking their religion seriously and often has the effect of bleed over to protestant churches.

I am a holder to "faith alone" and therefore find their doctrine to be seriously flawed. Much of it is centered around the denial of that doctrine (such as is with purgatory).

Now I must say that I also believe many protestant churches are full of superstitious nonsense as well (such as many Pentecostals and Charismatics), and the same holds for them in terms of flawed doctrine.
So I wouldn't blame all those problems on the Catholics alone, although they are a definite part of it.

Answer 2

Catholics do not denounce the Cross.

+ Purgatory +

The concept of purgation is hinted at in the Bible. Here are a couple of places:

"But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire." 1 Cor 3:15

"So that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that is perishable even though tested by fire, may prove to be for praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ." 1 Pet 1:7

Are you perfect now? Most people would say no.

Will you be perfect in heaven? Most people believe yes.

Purgatory (or purgation) is the process of God's love changing our imperfect selves on earth into perfect beings in heaven. Depending on the amount of change needed by different people, this can be an easy or slightly harder process. Everyone in purgatory is on his or her way to heaven. I do not think Mother Teresa of Calcutta had a very hard time of it.

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art12.htm#1030

+ Sources of Doctrine +

Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

The Catholic Church does not use Holy Scripture as the only basis of doctrine. It could not. The early Catholic church existed before and during the time that the New Testament was written (by Catholics).

There were hundreds of Christian writings during the first and second centuries. Which New Testament writings would become official was not fully decided until about 400 AD.

Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit was guiding the early church (and is guiding the church today) to make the correct choices about things like:
+ The Holy Trinity (which is also only hinted at in the Bible)
+ Going to church on Sunday instead of Saturday (which is actually directly against one of the Ten Commandments)
+ The Communion of Saints
+ How do our imperfect selves on earth get to be perfect in heaven?
+ Which writings include in the New Testament?

Things that are even more modern like
+ Slavery is bad. Slavery is never declared evil in the Bible. This was one of the justifications for slavery in the Confederate States.
+ Democracy is good. The Bible states that either God should be the leader of the nation like Israel before the kings or kings should be the leader, "Give to Caesar that which is Caesar's." This was talked about a lot during the American Revolution.

This second source of doctrine is called Apostolic Tradition.

Do Christians who do not allow the continuing guiding force of the Holy Spirit to make their beliefs more and more perfect, still endorse slavery as Colossians 3:22 commands, "Slaves, obey your human masters in everything"?

We instruct you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us. (2 Thessalonians 3:6)

I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you. (1 Corinthians 11:2)

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect1chpt2.htm#80

+ With love in Christ.

Answer 3

Catholics simply understand ALL of the theology of salvation, and not just the small, error filled subset that protestants cling to so tightly.

St. Paul clearly lays out all three possibilities here:

1Co 3:9 For we are God's coadjutors. You are God's husbandry: you are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God that is given to me, as a wise architect, I have laid the foundation: and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid: which is Christ Jesus.
1Co 3:12 Now, if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble:
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be manifest. For the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire. And the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is.

**Heaven**

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

**Purgatory**

1Co 3:15 If any mans work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know you not that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

**Hell**
1Co 3:17 But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which you are.

Not biblical? Hah!

Answer 4

Catholics do not denounce the cross. Crosses are usually more in evidence in a Catholic church than they are in any other kind.

Purgatory is not a "place" it is a process.

Yes, Christ has saved you, and purgartory is for the saved. It is not "hell lite." But why do you think you would have any right to stand before the living God without being purified? He is Holy, and only unblemished Holiness may stand in his presence. Saved or not, you still have a bath of hyssop to take, the refiner's fire to face.

"But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness." Malachi 3:2-3

Answer 5

Purgatory is very biblical, in the bible is is called Paradise. Paradise is not heaven. Jesus told the thief on the cross next to Him, "Today you will be in paradise". Jesus died and went to paradise and spoke to all those who had died before He was born, and retrived them and the keys. Yes we will all go to purgatory(paradise) until Jesus returns.

All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

Matt. 12-32: And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, NEITHER IN THE WORLD TO COME. (Some sins can therefore, be forgiven after death.)
1 Cor. 3, 13 and 15: Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, YET SO AS BY FIRE.

2 Machabees, 12-46: (This is one of the Old Testament books omitted from the Protestant Bible). It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins.

As nothing defiled can enter Heaven (Rev. 21-27), there must necessarily exist a state of cleansing or purgation usually called “purgatory.”

Purgatory is defined as a state of being, the continuing process of purgation or purification of the soul after human death. It is a state of perfection--begun in baptism and faith-consummated after death, entered into only by those who are saved. In other words, our transformation in Christ (Rom 13:14, "Put on the Lord Jesus Christ"), our perfection in the holiness of the Father (1 Pet 1:16, "Be holy, because I (am) holy") is not ended at our physical death. Purgatory is a sign of God's mercy on those who have honestly sought to know God and to do His will in this life and yet die in some degree of bondage to sin or the effects of sin.


And Catholics are Christians

Answer 6

I doubt very much that Catholics denounce the Cross--but Catholicism is steeped in ritual--has been for centuries--that could make one think that, I suppose...

As far as Purgatory goes, I seem to remember reading/hearing on the news (can't remember which) that they may be doing away with that concept...

Answer 7

If we have no responsibility for our own salvation, then why isn't everyone saved?? Isn't the sacrifice of Christ sufficient to save everyone?? Ohhh, we have to respond, right? We have to accept the gift of salvation. How about the person who goes to church once a week and prays twice a week? Is he saved? The person who devotes his/her entire life to the service of God, 24/7, like Mother Teresa did. Saved? The person who goes to church on Easter and Christmas and tries to help his fellow man? You see, there are many degrees of acceptance of salvation. And it would be pretty presumtious of me to assume that I will walk into heaven right alongside Mother Teresa or Pope John Paul, or Peter or Paul, or other great Catholics, just because the sacrifice of Christ was sufficient to save me. I will probably arrive with some baggage of sin, though hopefully not enough to condemn me for eternity. I will rely upon the grace of the once and for all time sacrifice to provide me with a place of putification so that I can enter into the kingdom clean and pure. Scriptute tells us nothing unclean can come before the throne of God. Luther's novel idea, which no Christian on earth ever heard of before the 16th Century, was that the sacrifice of Christ somehow allows us to be smuggled into heavem even though we are covered with filth, "like dung heaps covered with snow". But the original Christian Church - the ONE Church founded by Jesus Christ for all mankind - the ONE that has not fragmented into thousands of unauthorized conflicting manmade denominations - has taught consistently for 2,000 years that the sacrifice of Christ is sufficient to allow each of us to actually be made pure before coming before the throne of God. That's biblical. However, trying to find biblical passages to support everything we believe, and trying to force the Bible to become the foundation of truth, is plainly not biblical. The Bible plainly states that the Church Christ founded is the pillar and foundation of truth, not a collection of its writings that it compiled 350 years later.

Answer 8

I agree, If Catholics are Christian's and the Bible says there is ONE mediator between God and man the man Christ Jesus. Then why do they pray to saints and to mary etc.

Bunch of hog wash i'd say.

Answer 9

No.

Answer 10

Purgatory IS Biblical:

A State After Death of Suffering and Forgiveness
Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.

Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, "be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect." We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.

Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God's graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin.

Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and "under the earth" which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory.

2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.

Heb. 12:14 - without holiness no one will see the Lord. We need final sanctification to attain true holiness before God, and this process occurs during our lives and, if not completed during our lives, in the transitional state of purgatory.

Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are "made" perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the "prison." These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

Rev. 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.

Luke 23:43 – many Protestants argue that, because Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. There are several rebuttals. First, when Jesus uses the word "paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew "sheol," meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord's resurrection. Second, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus’ statement “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” This means Jesus could have said, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise” (meaning, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was “today” or “now,” and that some time in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Third, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life – perhaps by a bloody and repentant death – could be ready for admission in to heaven).

Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.

Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are unnecessary in heaven and unnecessary in hell. These dead are in purgatory.

Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.

2 Macc. 12:43-45 - the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.

Purification After Death By Fire
Heb. 12:29 - God is a consuming fire (of love in heaven, of purgation in purgatory, or of suffering and damnation in hell).

1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).

1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for "suffer loss" in the Greek is "zemiothesetai." The root word is "zemioo" which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).

1 Cor. 3:15 – further, Paul writes “he himself will be saved, "but only" (or “yet so”) as through fire.” “He will be saved” in the Greek is “sothesetai” (which means eternal salvation). The phrase "but only" (or “yet so”) in the Greek is "houtos" which means "in the same manner." This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved in the same manner by fire.

1 Cor. 3:13 - when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man's work by fire and purifying him, this purification relates to his sins (not just his good works). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was only writing about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing and purifying a man from sins would be admitting that there is a purgatory).

1 Cor. 3:17 - but this verse proves that the purgation after death deals with punishing sin. That is, destroying God's temple is a bad work, which is a mortal sin, which leads to death. 1 Cor. 3:14,15,17 - purgatory thus reveals the state of righteousness (v.14), state of venial sin (v.15) and the state of mortal sin (v.17), all of which are judged after death.

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter refers to this purgatorial fire to test the fruits of our faith.

Jude 1:23 - the people who are saved are being snatched out of the fire. People are already saved if they are in heaven, and there is no possibility of salvation if they are in hell. These people are being led to heaven from purgatory.

Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death because Jesus, speaking from heaven, awards the white garment of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).

Dan 12:10 - Daniel refers to this refining by saying many shall purify themselves, make themselves white and be refined.

Wis. 3:5-6 - the dead are disciplined and tested by fire to receive their heavenly reward. This is the fire of purgatory.

Sirach 2:5 - for gold is tested in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.

Zech. 13:8-9 - God says 2/3 shall perish, and 1/3 shall be left alive, put into the fire, and refined like silver and tested like gold. The ones that perish go to hell, and there is no need for refinement in heaven, so those being refined are in purgatory.

Mal. 3:2-3 - also refers to God's purification of the righteous at their death.