When scientists realize that one of their fellows has faked a major study, do they say 'oops'?

Question

I'm refering to a recent cloning experiment, in Korea. This lie, had a great effect on the stem cell issue. Is it pragmatic, or hypocritical for scientists not to acknowledge the FACT that many fundamentalists have GOOD reason to doubt the motives of many scientists, as well as their methods. Isn't the trust that young scientists put in their teachers, as blind as a fundies faith?

If you haven't heard of this, why?

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/hwang_woo_suk/index.html?inline=nyt-per

Answer 1

It happens, but I don't think it is a reason to discount the practice of science. It is, however, a good example of how science is a "community of faith" that depends on others being forthright about their work. There are no budgets available to go back and repeat the experiments and trials of others, so they are generally taken at face value. Good point.

Answer 2

First, you give very little to go on. As far as recent work in Korea, the one that first comes to mind was last year, where a researcher seems to have fabricated some research regarding stem cells, and apparently went to human trials too quickly. This was reported by the BBC last year, and scientists HAVE acknowledged the facts. Scientists do not cover things u; it just doesn't make headlines because people simply don't understand science, and, for the most part, aren't really interested.

I've yet to see an article describing what exactly was fabricated, but if you do any real reading on the subject, you will find that othe scientists were outraged, as was the Korean government. It was irresponsible science, and it has taken its toll.

To say that scientists do not act responsibly when they find their peers acting irresponsibly, simply because YOU do not hear about it is silly. The whole point of peer review, is to insure that such things are caught. It may not be right away, but bad science rarely goes unnoticed in the science community. That is the reason that trials take so long, and that scientists are discouraged from going to popular magazines prior to peer reviewed journals. That is the reason that we hear things from NASA usually quite some time after the initial findings have been made.

Scientists, as a rule are nowhere near as irresponsible as the religious charlatains, such as Benny Hinn, et. al. The scientists in Korea have been reprimanded by the government, and companies may even be destroyed because of this event. Do you advocate that the government put such creeps in the religous community under the same scrutiny?

Why do religious fundamentalists doubt scientists? It's not because of the lack of oversight; that does exist, contrary to the few isolated incidents that you might point out, which, are treated harshly when they are found. Rather, it is because science is a threat to fundamentalism because fundamentalism has no answer when science contradicts religion. The only defense that fundamentalism has is straw man arguments, and bait and switch tactics, such as this.

You try to say that one bad scientist is capable of impugning the entire scientific process, but do not hold yourselves to the same standards.

Answer 3

I have heard of the incident you speak of. Are you aware that the fraudulent scientist, Dr. Hwang Woo Su, has been completely discredited, resigned in disgrace, and will never work again as either a research scientist or a college professor? Scientists have zero tolerance for academic dishonesty and do not forgive manipulating the truth. All the studies where Dr. Su participated must now be re-examined to insure their integrity.

As far as I am concerned, especially after what I've read here in R&S, fundamentalists are generally so lacking in both education and ethics that one can never safely assume they are NOT lying.

Answer 4

No, the trust isn't blind. Because the teacher supposed to be showing them how to replicate experiments. If the teacher isn't teaching them right, the then outcome would be visible. So, in response to your initial question, I would probably say they try to figure out what went wrong and work from there. I am not a scientist, so I don't know what the punishments would be.

Answer 5

yes, then after the oops, the person who has fabricated research has his career destroyed and is forever ostracized from the scientific community and is forced to start his life's work over from scratch.

Oh and that stem cell story was absolutely huge news in the scientific community.

Oh yeah one last thing The research was actually i nthe field of obtaining stem cells without having to use a fetus. If science was so anti relgion, don't you think they would be jumping for joy about this discredidation?

Answer 6

they dont say oops, they say "caught you". See that is the beauty of science. It is documented tested and proved. Science can be replicated and verified by others. If someone fakes their results, the test when replicated, will show the results are fake.

Religion, is constantly fake. Prayers, miracles omens etc. none of this is proven or replicated to work, yet millions of people follow like lemmings. Thats the reason bush is in office.

and talk about motives. Priests have to be alone with young boys for getaways, god needs your money to build a bigger church, oral roberts, jim baker . . . should i go on?

Answer 7

Do you remember exactly went wrong? I don't remember the article exactly but I seem to recall that the actual results of the study were valid.



Regardless of whether it was faked or not, he was outed by the scientific community. That's the thing about science, the "reperformance" part is self-policing.

Edit: Thanks for the link. My 2nd statement still stands. Wasn't this the same scientist who has cloned other mammals?

Answer 8

Fundementalists have good reason to doubt scientists' motivations because scientists will already have a conclusion in their heads while looking for facts to support that conclusion. If scientists could be objective, they would apologize for mistakes, and therefore be trusted much more by everyone, including fundementalists.

The faith you call blind has utterly transformed millions and millions throughout history, myself included. We tend to mock that which we don't understand.

Answer 9

Of course people have heard of it. Do YOU realize that there are tens of millions of scientists in the world? And you've heard about ONE faking data. SHOCKING. So I heard that Ted Haggard was a hypocritical drug user - so all Christians are! We should ban religion! It's corrupting the young people!

Answer 10

I think all of the answers before mine show one thing that is glaringly obvious:

Throughout history, there have been "scientists" with ulterior motives who seek to fake their findings to gain power, money, success.

Throughout history, there have been "religious" people with ulterior motives who seek to fake their faith to gain power, money, success.

Both of these are true, don't you think?

May I add also that luckily for all of us, there are both real scientists and true believers who believe in the truth and beauty of their life, their work, and their faith. I'm glad for people such as these, aren't you?