What do the proponents of global warming consider normal climate change?

Question

The climate has changed for billions of years.
It's been much hotter and much colder.
The temperature has gone up and down slower and faster.
There has been much more and much less CO2 in the atmosphere.
The CO2 has increased and decreased at slower and faster rates as well before humans exsisted.
Also other planets in the solar system are changing at the same rate as earth.

Why is it any different now?

How can this be attributed to humans when this has all happend even before Humans were here?

It seems that the so called environ"MENTAL" crowd should be behind global warming, if it's going to be as bad as they say. All of the catastrophy that they claim will happen
will only result in a reduction of population, a key component in there argument to stop global warming.

And if the debate is over, do the proponents of global warming/Climate change, understand they have lost?

Answer 1

That is the question that has never been suitably answered as far as I'm concerned. They seem to like to say that the temperature increase has NEVER occured at such a fast rate. In their own admission they only have what can be considered reliable data from around 100 years ago. So how do they know it has never happened at this fast of a rate? Are we supposed to believe they can stick a probe down a deep hole and tell us precisely, with no margin of error, what the temperatures were a million years or more ago? Actually, I would only consider data from the last 50-75 years to be reliable enough to base a theory such as this on and as far as I am concerned the numbers just aren't that alarming. Not to mention the fact that I have no idea what the temperature is SUPPOSED to be in the future so how would I know if it was too hot to begin with. Incidentally, up here in the northern plains the average temp for this time of year is in
the 70's yet we didn't even crack 50 today.

Answer 2

You are right that the earth's temperatures have always fluctuated some. That does not mean that it is a good thing. If for no other reason than the violent storms that warmer ocean water and atmospheres produce. Also drought can become a problem in other areas that used to receive regular rain, Africa is expected to take a particularly large hit in the drought department. One of the main differences between the natural fluctuations and the changes we are facing now is the speed of the change, and the exponential ability to continue increasing.

The 'environmental' crowd does not want people to die horrible deaths from violent storms, starvation due to drought. We would rather have people (mostly big corps though) make some changes that will allow earth to be habitable for a long time.

The truth is that if the debate is over and nobody makes changes than we all have lost.
This website has a good myth or fact page that you may (or may not) be interested in:
http://www.fightglobalwarming.com/index.cfm?source=banner_search

Answer 3

I don't consider the term 'normal climate change' to be meaningful. As you say, the climate has changed many time in the past and has been much hotter and colder than it is now. However, at no point during human history has the climate ever changed as rapidly as it is changing now. Most glacial and interglacials take tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of years to form, this change has taken less that two centuries.

Animals have evolved to be well adapted to the climate we're living in now, and rapid change could very well be devastating. While it's true that species have adapted to most of Earth's past changes, it's important to remember that virtually every previous change in which global temperatures changed as fast as they're changing now resulted in mass extinction events (the end of the dinosaurs, anyone?). So scientists aren't worried so much =that= the climate is changing, it's the rate at which it's doing so that concerns them.

You ask "how can this be attributed to humans when this has all happened even before Humans were here?"
You need to understand that the simple fact that we weren't around for any of the past changes doesn't mean we can't be affecting =this= change. I would posit that the simple fact that we =are= around for this one is what makes it so unique in the planet's history.

Lastly, I hope you realize how ridiculous you seem by declaring, by fiat, that you have 'won the debate'. If you wish to make such obviously egregious claims I'm afraid I'll have to ask that you present your evidence supporting this position. From what I've observed, the pseudo-skeptics like yourself lost the argument decades ago, before most of you even realized the theory existed.

Answer 4

Something other than this:

http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Image:Climate_Change_Attribution.png

There have been natural changes before. BECAUSE OF THE DATA 99+% of scientists agree that this change is not natural.

"I wasn’t convinced by a person or any interest group—it was the data that got me. I was utterly convinced of this connection between the burning of fossil fuels and climate change. And I was convinced that if we didn’t do something about this, we would be in deep trouble.”

Vice Admiral Richard H. Truly, USN (Ret.)
Former NASA Administrator, Shuttle Astronaut and the first Commander of the Naval Space Command

BECAUSE OF THE DATA, not "logical arguments" the debate is over. This is the result:

"Regardless of these spats, the fact that the community overwhelmingly supports the consensus is evidenced by picking up any copy of Journal of Climate or similar, any scientific program at the AGU or EGU meetings, or simply going to talk to scientists (not the famous ones, the ones at your local university or federal lab). I challenge you, if you think there is some un-reported division, show me the hundreds of abstracts at the Fall meeting (the biggest confernce in the US on this topic) that support your view - you won't be able to. You can argue whether the consensus is correct, or what it really implies, but you can't credibly argue it doesn't exist."

Dr. James Baker - NOAA

"There's a better scientific consensus on this [climate change] than on any issue I know - except maybe Newton's second law of dynamics. Global warming is almost a no-brainer at this point,You really can't find intelligent, quantitative arguments to make it go away."

Dr. Jerry Mahlman, NOAA

Being a global warming skeptic is much like believing the Earth is 6000 years old. You need to ignore a mountain of data:

http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf

to do so.

Answer 5

A lot of what you say is correct apart from the fact that neither temperatures or CO2 levels have EVER increased as fast as they are doing now.

Natural cycles are very slow, historical warming and cooling has occured over thousands and millions of years. The current warming is occuring over a matter of decades.

To put it into context - in the last 50 years temperatures have risen 17 times faster than any previous natural rise.

All the factors you mention are well known and accepted by climate scientists, you're not coming up with anything that hasn't already been taken into account.

Anyone can deny anything by simply ignoring the facts they don't like and accepting anything that backs up their own opinion. This is why some people still think the Earth is flat and that smoking is harmless.

Climate change isn't about winners and losers. Those who accept climate change are taking a responsible and scientific approach to addressing the issues we are facing.

Answer 6

Don't worry about it. If you wait 10 minutes give or take a decade, these exact same people will be warning us about global cooling like they did 30 years ago. One question you forgot to ask is what is the normal temperature of the earth? Until someone can prove what that is, how do we know the earth is warming? Maybe we are just going back to the normal temperature.

Answer 7

At the end of an ice age, the global temperature typically rises 4° to 7° C over 5000 years, a rate of 0.14° per century or less. That's normal climate change.

The current global temperature has risen 0.7° in a century, five times faster than any normal process. There is no historical or geological evidence for any global warming this rapid in the history of the earth.

Answer 8

well for starters, climate change that occurs slow enough to allow most organisms to adapt. that really sn't occuring right now, since many species are disappearing over night, because it is occuring so rapidly.

Answer 9

The enviromentalists are not alone in their inability to see the big picture. Most everyone ignores logic and reason when it comes to something they are passionate about. Look what religion does to people.

Answer 10

I agree totally with you.