IS TRINITY pagan and idiotic according to John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the HOLY Bible?

Question

John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.

Even though, as Trinitarians acknowledge, neither the word “Trinity” nor a statement of the Trinitarian dogma is found in the Bible, are the concepts that are embodied in that dogma found there?

Answer 1

Yes

Answer 2

No! But "yes" if you are using the KJV. (See 1 Tim. 3:16; "God was manifest in the flesh" & 1 John 5:7, 8 where reference is made to the "Father, Son, Holy Spirit". However, a closer look at the later MSS show that Trinitarians try to muddy up the understanding of the sacred secret by saying that “He” at 1 Timothy 3:16 is God himself. They base this on the King James Bible, which reads, “God was manifest in the flesh.” However, what do the most reliable Greek manuscripts say? Consistently, they use the pronoun “He” instead of “God.” Textual critics now agree that the insertion of “God” in this scripture is a scribal error. Thus, more recent translations, such as the American Standard Version, The New English Bible, and the New World Translation, etc., correctly read: ‘He [or, He who] was manifest in the flesh.’

Also modern scholars do not hesitate to omit from their Bible translations the spurious passage found at First John 5:7, 8. After the words “For there are three witness bearers” (NB: In the footnote of the NIV reads: 1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8. And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century. Omitted by the ASV, AT, RV, Moffatt, NEB, Phillips, Rotherham, RSV, Schonfield, Wade, Wand, Weymouth, etc.)

Commenting on these words, the famous scholar and prelate B. F. Westcott said, “The words which are interpolated in the common Greek text in this passage offer an instructive illustration of the formation and introduction of a gloss into the apostolic text.”-The Epistles of John by B. F. Westcott, 4th edition, 1902, page 202.

Also The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation one God in three Persons was NOT solidly established, certainly NOT fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.” (1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

And what about Matthew 28:19, 20? Does it prove a Trinity?

Interestingly enough the New Catholic Encyclopedia offers three such “proof texts” but also admits: “The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the O[ld] T[estament]. In the N[ew] T[estament] the oldest evidence is in the Pauline epistles, especially 2 Cor 13.13 [verse 14 in some Bibles], and 1 Cor 12.4-6. In the Gospels evidence of the Trinity is found explicitly only in the baptismal formula of Mt 28.19.” Do these verses prove a trinity doctrine? Do those verses say that God, Christ, and the holy spirit constitute a Trinitarian Godhead, that the three are equal in substance, power, and eternity? [1 Cor 12.4-6; & Mt 28.19;]

Admits McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, “proves only that there are the three subjects named, . . . but it does not prove, by itself, that all the three belong necessarily to the divine nature, and possess equal divine honor.”
This type of reference, admits McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, “proves only that there are the three subjects named, . . . but it does not prove, by itself, that all the three belong necessarily to the divine nature, and possess equal divine honor.”
Also note, although a supporter of the Trinity, that source says of 2 Corinthians 13:13 (14): “We could not justly infer that they possessed equal authority, or the same nature.” And of Matthew 28:18-20 it says: “This text, however, taken by itself, would not prove decisively either the personality of the three subjects mentioned, or their equality or divinity.”

Answer 3

Yes. Pagan trinities go back to ancient Babylon.

We invite you to search the Bible, especially the 27 books of the Christian Greek Scriptures, to see for yourself if Jesus and his disciples taught a Trinity. As you search, ask yourself:

1. Can I find any scripture that mentions “Trinity”?

2. Can I find any scripture that says that God is made up of three distinct persons, Father, Son, and holy spirit, but that the three are only one God?

3. Can I find any scripture that says that the Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom?

Search as you may, you will not find one scripture that uses the word Trinity, nor will you find any that says that Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom. Not even a single scripture says that the Son is equal to the Father in those ways—and if there were such a scripture, it would establish not a Trinity but at most a “duality.” Nowhere does the Bible equate the holy spirit with the Father.

Answer 4

Yes, Pagan and Idiotic. Trinity origenates from the Devil. Directly speaking it means all is God. You are God, the cow is God, the sky is God etc. In religious terminology they call it: the Father is God, the Son is God, The Holy Spirit is God all in the same level, taken from their own perception that is: the mind is man, the body is man, the feeling is man. Man is God God is Man. Human is reincarnation of God and God is distiny of Man. The point of all this teaching is 'YOU DONT NEED GOD, YOU ARE GOD. Wonder why there are people who said 'God is dead? 'there is no God?' with different reinforcement such as theory of Evolution? Then there are people who worship woods, rocks, irons and plastic carve in the image of man, man in the cross. Then there are those who worshipped animals. In Mecca you will see people bowing and kissing the black granite stone, and in Vatican you will see people kissing the hand of their pontiff. What are the motive of this gestures? leave the living God?

Next to the teaching that you are God is the teaching that you dont die, so enjoy as they say. Then why there are sufferings? they would tell you: its just your past life.Then you would say: What past life? i dont remember any past life of me. So there is a teaching of Reincarnation. In Philippines, there is a man who taught that Jose Rizal, considered as Philippine hero, is reincarnation of Christ, and that him (the said man) is reincarnation of Jose Rizal. That man won a number of follower and they call themselves Rizalian. And they interpret the name Rizal as REX ALL, All is King, meaning, all is God. You are God this computer is God. It is too explicit to say this word but this the only way to knock the lies out of the truth.

So, is there really a trinity? of course there is three but there is no Trinity. When you say: In the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit you did not added these three are one because you know they are not. The begetter is not the begotten, the begotten is not the begetter. If the name of the father is Jehovah or Yahweh, and if the name of the Son is Jesus Christ, what is the name of the Holy Spirit? So you see, the Holy Spirit is impersonal, there is no third person, there is only two.

If there are countless consciousness and Jehovah is the Father of them all, all their body is spirit--CONSCIOUSNESS and SPIRIT, only two. Every INDIVIDUAL is DUAL. Even the body of man, it is spirit, it is atom, atom is spirit but less vibrant.

Answer 5

The early followers of Jesus never knew the word trinity. Nor it was known to any of the Biblical Prophets that came before Jesus (PBUH). It is a big lie that was invented by later Christians centuries later. Why not the Christians belive in One True God that Jesus taught them. Hope there are good Christians belive in the Oneness of Allah.

Answer 6

I don't think Fr. McKenzie said what you are claiming. The entry you copied does not say Fr. McKenzie called the Trinity "pagan" and "idiotic." You are putting words in the mouth of Fr. McKenzie. You could be sued for libel and defamation of character for saying things that Fr. McKenzie did not say. I hope you are aware of that.

In fact, you only copied a portion of the entry on the Trinity to support your own opinion. I am sure if you had shown the entire entry we would have a different interpretation.

I used to be in Puiblic Relations so I know all the "tricks of the trade." Nice try, anyway.

May the Lord's peace be with you!

Answer 7

i'm attempting to locate the element the place he says it particularly is absurdity. i'm doubtful on that. are you able to end the quote or quote the area the place he mentions that? to respond to your 2d question, particular...the recommendations come strictly from Scripture and grew from that. We see, tremendously in John's first financial ruin, Jesus is God. We see throughout the time of Scripture that there is an extensive dating between the father, Son, and Spirit. We see that Jesus, throughout the time of Scripture, is interior the area of Heaven and intrinsically has an expert that would in user-friendly terms be attributed to God. So all of us understand there's a dating there and, as John tells us needless to say, Jesus is God ~ the question then will become "what's the dating?" tremendously considering we are from a Monotheistic faith - no longer a Polytheistic one. What McKenzie is asserting in that passage, it style of feels (might would desire to envision greater if there is greater) is that those words have been utilized ERRONEOUSLY. they'd desire to be utilized, yet blunders have been made as people utilized them. to respond to your ordinary question - the Trinity is obviously Scriptural. yet does it say "Trinity?" in there or "injuries," "substance," "person," and "nature" to describe it? No. Why might it however? Defining the Trinity took particularly a mutually as and it ended up making the main sense as quickly as we evaluate it to a Greek Philosophical set of words and definitions. i'm going to place you on the checklist that I verify frequently in case you have the different questions approximately this. Matt

Answer 8

When the Bible Puts the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit on the Same Level in the Same Scripture, It Shows Us the Trinity


"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all" (2 Cor. 13:14).
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost…" (Matt. 28:19). See also John 14:26, Luke 3:21-22. Since the Bible says there is only one God, we know we are not to baptize in the name of three gods, but the passage clearly speaks of three persons. "Name" in Hebrew speaks as much of the nature of the person as of what he is called. We are to baptize in the name (singular) of all three of the persons of God.
"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father" (Gal. 4:6).

Answer 9

Trinity refers to the 3 natures of God, God the creator who is spirit, God as spirit who become man in the form of Jesus, and God as the Holy Spirit which is love. It's not a pagan concept, meaning that there are not three completely separate, independent beings. (Jesus cannot by his nature act contrary to God in Christian dogma.)

If God is infinite according to Christianity, then there can't be more than one God, otherwise he would not be infinite because the presence of another God would limit him. This is why in Christian faith the Trinity is not thought of as separate Gods like the pagan tradition might hold but as united facets of one God.

Answer 10

If the Trinity, word and idea, are not to be found in the Bible, then it is not a teaching direct from God.
It remains a false teaching, regardless of how many people believe it or of how many religions claim it.