Scientific arguments?

Question

Yesterday I was engaged in a debate about whether evolution is real or not, based on my model of antibiotic resistance. and the Christians went berserk saying its not true etc etc.

the bottom line is you cant have a baby if you're a virgin without sperm and that is simply IT. Can a Christian realistically ever dispute THAT? Because that would just be painful....

I think Mary was scared they'd stone her for putting it about. and then concocted an immaculate conception.

Nice try Mary, but like a glass of holy water, I can see right through you!

*awaits abuse*

God's DNA had to get in there somehow!

1. Evolution and resistance development are the same fundamental process despite just being on a smaller scale. Its not fair to use overly technical language to confuse people without a scientific background or knowledge of mutations in DNA etc etc.

2. If Mary was Jesus' mother AND father through some random merging of two eggs, how is he the Son of God?

3. God doesnt have DNA - is that all you're going to say about that, LOL?

4. I wasnt talking about sharks I was talking about Mary.

To be honest all your arguments scream desperation. Just what I thought.

Answer 1

all you are gonna get is the old "god can do anything" argument.

Answer 2

One cannot begin to understand the miracles of reality without knowing the spiritual realm first. It wasn't "God's sperm" that "fertilized" Mary, on the contrary to be God at the same time as human there had to be something much, much more to give him this incredibly divinity. You simply cannot look at this in human terms because it was not a regular birth. understand she wanted to accept her fate. If she hadn't, it would have never happened to her. In those days she would have been stoned but for some reason, they didn't and she was one of the few who survived.
It interests me that a debate on evolution somehow spawned the theory of Jesus's mortality and Mary's "sin" when they were both close to God. If you don't know God you cannot begin to understands that He bends science. For He created it.
I thought it was cute you said God's dna, because he's not human :)

Have you seen the movie the Nativity? I was certain I wouldn't like it but it just tells the story as it is, and it really shows a different side of Mary.

Answer 3

I have to say, as an atheist, this one is a yawner.

No offense but you really don't understand the concept of God. If you really want to convince Christians, you'll really have to understand the concept of God.

To a person who believes God created everything or that Jesus walked on water and raised the dead, do you really think something like this is going to convince anyone?

Just think about it, really. God wouldn't have DNA, God wouldn't need it. He could easily have created sperm out of nothing and placed them inside Mary. She could have been a virgin as she didn't need to have intercourse. SO WHAT?

If the story happened, I suppose it is more probable that Mary faked it. But who cares? You can't prove it. Even if you could they would just say that was God's will or way of doing it. Blah.

If you really want to advocate atheism, use your talents to come up with something that might actually help. Understand the idea of God and the many memes involved in religious belief. We have to replace them all. Understand the origins of the stories of religion. The stories are real, even if the characters they are about are not. If you can help prove the story of Adam and Eve is really about the Agricultural Revolution, then you'll be on to something.

As it is, you're just driving them further and further away.

Answer 4

God makes the rules... God put in place al the "scientific" laws that govern the functions of this universe... he did indeed design the reproductive functions.... But that only applies to the functions of The physical universe... God created all life within this universe... since you do not agree with this there is no reason for you to accept any responce from anyone who dose... But... just go along with the fact that those of us of The True Christian Faith believe it.. ok?... then what is the difficulty with stateing that God could very easly have caused a life to form within Mary?.... seems, to me at least, that would be an easy thing for one who created the whole universe... of course you do not believe any of it... so don't worry about it... you are not bound by the same law that the Christians are boutnd to... but you are bound by the Laws of the univeres... and a shark just gave birth without a male contribution.... I am not saying God did it... but I believe he did put in place the "scientific" law that alows it.

Answer 5

The conception and birth of Jesus Christ are supernatural events beyond human logic or understanding. Because of this God sent angels to help certain people understand the significance of what was happening.

The angel declared to Joseph that Mary's child was conceived by the Holy Spirit and would be a son. This reveals an important truth about Jesus - He is both God and human. The infinite unlimited God took on the limitations of humanity so He could live and die for the salvation of all who would believe in Him.

Jesus means 'the Lord saves'. Jesus came to earth to save us because we can't save ourselves from sin and its consequences. No matter how good we are, we can't eliminate the sinful nature present in all of us. Only Jesus can do that. Jesus didn't come to help people from themselves; He came to be their Saviour from the power and penalty of sin.

Jesus would fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah, for He would be Immanuel (God is with us). see Isaiah 7 verse 14. Jesus was God in the flesh; thus God was literally among us. Through the Holy Spirit, Christ is present today in the life of every believer.

Answer 6

"the Christians went berserk saying its not true etc etc."
Without some sort of transcript of the conversation, why should we just take your word that they "went berserk"?

"the bottom line is you cant have a baby if you're a virgin without sperm and that is simply IT."
Only if you presuppose a naturalistic universe. Not very open-minded of you, I must say.

"I think Mary was scared they'd stone her for putting it about. and then concocted an immaculate conception."
And people, especially Joseph, would believe her because...?

Answer 7

I would just like to point out that parthenogenesis is in theory possible within the mammalian branch of life.

Already there are numerous fertility and reproductive medicine groups experimenting with egg fusion to allow two females to have a biological child. There has been rather some success with this technique.

While it would be unlikely in nature, that it can be coaxed into happening means that if a woman released two ova and they were in contact and were traumatized or otherwise forced together, they could fuse.

The child would have to be female, however, as there would be no Y donor, only X+X.

But to totally rule out parthenogenesis is unwise considering it does exist naturally in some species, albeit reptilian ones and simplier forms.

Answer 8

You can't explain the "Spirit" with 'Science" thats why it's a "faith"

29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."

34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"

35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[c] the Son of God.

1cor.2:5 that your faith should not stand in the "wisdom" of Men, but the "power of God"

Answer 9

Actually, the virgin birth stories are probably not a response to accusations that Jesus was illegitimate. Think about it - if someone gave that as an explanation of why they were pregnant, would you buy it? Not a very effective counter, then as now.

I wrote an article for the Journal for the Study of the Historical Jesus entitled "Was Jesus Illegitimate?" in which I argue that, as far as our earliest evidence is concerned, people assumed Jesus was simply the child of his purported parents. If you can get hold of a copy, take a look!

Answer 10

I think you are asking a meaningless question. I am not a Christian, but if the bible is true and all of those other “miraculous” stories happened, then why couldn’t a virgin be impregnated by God? If God could make a man out of a rib, then why couldn’t he impregnate a virgin without sex. If the bible is not true, which is probably the case, then none of it happened.

Answer 11

Under normal circumstances I would agree. The only point I wish to make is that the 'Immaculate Conception' was Mary's conception without Original Sin. It had nothing to do with her conceiving Jesus.

Cheers :-)