catalan and spanish??

Question

why do people say catalan is a dialect of spanish?? i know its not but is that just like saying someone who speaks welsh is speaking a dialect of english just people its spoken in england??

Answer 1

Hi, Catalan is a romance language. Spanish is a romance language too. The difference between dialect and language is quite a problematic one, since its relative. Catalan is not considered a dialect of Spanish.

However, some Catalans consider for example, Valencian language, Balearic language, or for example Aranés a language spoken in certain valleys of the Pirenees, mainly la Val d´Aran dialects of Catalan.

This statement that Valecian is a dialect of catalan would drive many valencians to commit sepuku before addmiting that. Even within Balearic there is Mallorquín, Menorquín e Ibizenco and they might get upset if you tell them that there language is a dialect either from Balearic or from Catalan.

Usually it is said that catalan is the language spoken in Catalunya, and certain southeast areas of France, though some of these do not consider their language Catalan but consider their language to be an unique Provençal language.

So the large fish is always trying to swallow the smaller fish.

And the Catalans who get outraged about their language being called a dialect, should take diazepam or else soon they will be dropping like flies of high blood pressure, stress or some cardiac disease.

The patriotic pride does not engage me much since history tells us that Spain is just a sign, a word...that represnt a territory, which has changed of shape, size and name even, hence it is a represntation and not an object, just a name given to the Iberian peninsula by the romans - Hispania.

The iberian people of that time did not have any concept of nation and hence they were the mix of many different celtic, iberian, celtiberian, phoenician, greek, carthaginesian, Roman and african Brbrs and others that fought as mercenaries on the Carthaginesian, Roman or Greek armies that invaded the peninsula.

In fact there are some interesting theories that explain that the only possible explanation for the existance of the Vascs and their language, since gentically they have celtic genes yet their language is related in many ways with some languages spoken in the Rif range of northern africa. However, the celts also were in N. Africa and had many tribes and peoples there.

Some reseachers say that the vasc language or Euskera and the vascs themselves, the Euskaldun, from the mithical Euskalerria, supposedly todays Eyuskadi plus the Gascony or french Vascland, are a mixture of local celtic population that existed in times of the Romans with remains of the fleeing Carthaginesian army. As the chronicles report the sons of Asdrubal and brothers of Hannibal, Asdrubal the beautiful and Majón (latter gave the name to Mahon capital of Ibiza) lost their army and hispania to Pompey´s armies.

The first roman historians when enumerating the cantabrian peoples or those peoples leaving in the north of Iberia on the Cantabrian Range and subranges did not mention the Vascs while they mentioned the Astures, Cantabros, and many other celtic groups. The name of the vascs comes from an ancient Astur word that meant mountain people. So some reserachers say they are the result of the mix from celts, other groups and mercenaries which lived in the mountains and out of that mixture came out a language such as vasc that has celtic, latin, spanish, caucasian, and african relative idioms and terms.

Yet some Vascs would also rather commit sepuku than hear anything about this. However the Vascs say that the Navarros are vascs and speak a vasc dialect. While the navarros, one of the originary an oldest kingdom in the spanish peninsula, say that it is the Vascs that are Navarros in any case. And partly they are right since while Navarra was a Kingdom, Euskadi was never even a county which at least Cataluña was, lead by the Count of Barcelona.

The truth is that many of these arguments and national histories where designed at specific moments in history when there where multinational interests to create a nation where there was just people. Create an Israel in the midst of arab lands. Genetic brothers killing each other for lies.

I am from Castille and my family from Aragón. Yet I would not die to defend the idea of Spain. Not because of lack of courage and bravery but because I understand the scam designed by royal families and landlords to maintain power and have people ready to die, kill, nazi style, or actual style, at the sign of an officer, to maintain them in Power and have a bunch or oafs,as during feudal times. It has to be a happy coincidence that most or all european royal families are related to each other by quite close blood ties, they are also known as the Gota.

Today we, the oafs are even more stupid than before since we worry and work to be better workers and even design our lives around work....jogging to improve work performance, studying to improve work skills, displacing ourselves to live somewhere else to get a job, being more flexible than the best preservatives, for who?, for what? Specially when we only find intolerance and rigidness within our systems.

Too much people wanting to die for signs, symbols and words that are quite relative and had very different meanings, forms, sizes and shapes throughout history. I now Finns, Chinese, even Americans for crying out loud ,who have more things in common with me than my next door neighbours or even some of my brothers, with whom, due to their strict intolerance, I do not even speak.

So, although I understand your statement I would not get very worked up because all this propaganda that often is called history, is only for those who can afford it. The catalans are naive if they think that a fascist Catalan is better than a Fascist spaniard, and will soon learn the truth....they are even learning it right as I write with their Catalan leaders promoting ever more fascist laws (read in depth the new ordinances of Barcelona for civil propriety and the outrageous and dispporportionl penalties and fines)

There is only people and each person is unique, independant of land, flag or name. This is the nature of biology, we are unique, like it or not.

Then there are greedy sons of bítches ready to enslave everyone to make a buck....they are everywhere and cant be recogniced but by their external symbols and their acts and dids, and hence its quite difficult to stop them.

The only way would be changing the laws so that greed and those who are ready to do anything fort money or power, if caught doing something illegal, like stealing the money of thousand of citizens, the Enroneers, would get the strictest penalties. Punishments equal to state treason, since they are robbing their own people and actionists. Today one defaults a hundred million pounds from others and they get less punishment than any poor idiot that stole grandma´s purse.

So maybe one day some shall understand that we are all unique and that generalizations are faulty, and hence Science is faulty, and a collection of lies too, used and modified at will to manipulate us as cattle, and I know this for a fact.

Quantificators such as all, none, never, always should be forbiden since they are figments of minor imaginations and thought. I have forbade them in my home and my children are cautious with their use. We are born alone and we die alone and all the rest is folklore, chauvinism, prejudice and ball.

Best regards
S
PS: excuse my rambling but I am so tired of the nationalist and globalist crap ... specially when we are being robbed silly not only of our money, but of our efforts, our jobs, our beliefs and they are not even bothering to replace these with something. While we discuss, the thiefs point in every direction and slap us repeatedly as a child who is told to look at an airplane and gets a poke for being naive. While they can keep all fighting with each other, some will profit, what the hell, they will even sell us the arms for real cheap.

Remember the adagio Divide and Conquer...well it exists in every language and it started many thousands of years ago, when their were not even countries or nations at all.

Answer 2

I guess it's just because of the fact it's sound so much like Spanish and has so many similarities in accent, grammar, and vocabulary. As a Spanish speaker the first time I watched a Catalan program I had to do a "double take" to make sure that I was listening to Catalan. I was almost positive that it was Spanish. As the program went on obviously the Catalan words became obvious, but I was still able to get a fairly good idea of what the speakers were talking about. In all due respect I would consider Catalan to be its own language that simply shares many similarities with Spanish. Think about: speakers of Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish are able to understand each other even when the other speaker is speaking their native language, yet these three are all still considered different languages.

Answer 3

Because of ignorance. Even if you put all political agendas and personal opinions aside, Catalan is a unique and completely separate language from Spanish by linguistic definition.

It's no more similar to saying Welsh is a dialect of English than saying Swahili is a dialect of English!

Catalan has many similarities to Spanish, just as all romance languages have similarities to each other. Catalan culture, including its history, art and literature has also co-existed with the other cultures of today's Spain for centuries. There are political reasons that confuse these facts, so much so that even as a Spanish minor in college, I was NEVER aware that Catalan was spoken in Spain, until I met my husband, who is a native Catalan, both in language and in heritage. Of course he is Spaniard too, and has been bilingual since childhood (like almost all Catalonians).

Answer 4

I agree that Catalan is spoken in Catalonia, which happens to be in both France and Spain but Catalan is not a dialect of either Spanish or French.

Spanish is a West Iberian Romance language, French is a Gallo-Rhaetian Romance language and Catalan is an Occitano-Romance language. All are Romance language, just different families.

However:

Welsh is NOT IS THE SAME FAMILY AS ENGLISH. English is an Anglic-Germanic language. Welsh is a Brythonic-Celtic language. Welsh and English are even further removed than Catalan and Spanish.

And I think that you are confusing England with the United Kingdom (UK). England and Wales are IN the UK but England is NOT the same as the UK. England and Wales are separate countries. Welsh is spoken in Wales and English is spoken in both England and Wales.

Answer 5

It's really an error to say that catalan is a dialect. A dialect comes from a language, yet, catalan doesn't come from spanish. It comes in fact from a special form of latin spoken in Pyrenees a long time ago, spanish and french just influenced it in XV century.
I think that this error comes from a politic will. Perhaps you know that there is an important indepentist movement in Catalonia. One of its arguments, is the common language... If you say that this is not a separated language, but only a spanish dialect, you destroy this argument...

Answer 6

You are absolutely right.

Catalan is the own language in a large territory whose main part is in Spain , but also in Andorra, France and Italy (Sardinia island).

Answer 7

It's a different language but it's so similar to Spanish people tend to think it is the same language, just a different dialect, and that is because it is really spoken in a certain area of Spain, so it would sort of be a dialect.

However, I know it is just considered it's own language.. it's just similar to Spanish.

Answer 8

The pronunciation of Catalan is somewhat closer but in terms of grammar, vocabulary Portuguese is even closer.But even in the spoken form, not everything is reduced to pronunciation. The vocabulary and grammar matters all the same. Portuguese, like Spanish, doesn't use the ENDE and IBI pronouns that Catalans, French and Italians use, for example. So they use more simple combinations of pronouns.

Example:



I eat one apple and she eats two (apples). I go to the school but she doesn't go (there).

Italian: Io mangio una mela e lei ne mangia due (mele). Io vado in villaggio ma lei non ci va.
French: Je mange une pomme et elle en mange deux(pommes). Je vais au village mais elle n'y va pas.
Catalan: Jo menjo una poma i ella en menja dues(pomes). Jo vaig a la vila però ella no hi va.

but no trace in

Spanish: Yo como una manzana y ella come dos (manzanas). Yo voy al pueblo pero ella no va.
Portuguese: Eu como uma maçã e ela come duas(maçãs). Eu vou à vila mais ela não vai.

Answer 9

catalan is another language.. it's like saying British English, and American English.... it's english, but, it's a different accent, different meaning on some words... it's a dialect.

Answer 10

That's a common misconception, people just say that because it is known that it's spoken in regions of Spain. However, it's an international language, and quite varied if you ask me... I would love to learn it.

Answer 11

Its a sepatae language in spain..its one of t he official languages in spain. and is probably just a dialect too. it doesnt look like spanish to me it looks likea mix of french an spanish. i went to barcelona and many signs were written in catalan, castellano and other languages and it looks almost nothing like spanish.. why dont we have dialects (other than ebonics??? everybody has their own dialect