A question for all -- regarding the nature of reality.?

Question

Christians believe God exists and atheists know that He doesn't. It's obvious both sides sincerely believe they are correct and that neither side is attempting to deceive the other. Last night, I suddenly realized the reason for this paradox is that each side has a different definition of reality.

For the atheist, reality is objective, external to the mind and includes all that can be observed, directly or indirectly. Subjective experience is not part of an atheist's definition of reality because it is not physical and depends on personal expectation.

For the Believer, reality is subjective and arises from within the mind. It includes all that the Believer is capable of directly experiencing for himself. Subjective experience is an integral part of a Believer's definition of reality because humans can only know that which they experience for themselves.

I'd like to know everyone's opinion of the above speculation. Please state your faith before expressing your opinion.

Answer 1

Buddhist: Yes! This is called "valid perception". Very good speculation, and very logical.

Addition: for those who are thinking I said "valid cognition", no. I mean valid perception vs. correct perception per Buddhist philosophy.

_()_

Answer 2

Normally, we have a delayed perception of what's actually happening in the seemingly solid universe, trapped literally by all the intentions of everyone. Suffice to say that such perception is not completely objective and quite distorted. At the quantum level, things are less concrete, less intentional but it would be sad to have it otherwise because it would mean there is no possibility to make desirable changes for the whole at a higher level irregardless of how little our effort seem in the sea of chaos. If we could accept the opposite natures of the world at different scales, then we are closer to understanding or even accessing the existence of different universes at infinite scales of infinite possibilities. To solve any problem, we must first see and define what the problem IS, or-else we merely have a mess to deal with.

Answer 3

~~~ Dio,,,, "Perception is Reality" regardless of the Seer's Philosophy. THIS is "Subjective Reality". Then there is "Concensus Reality", that in which all agree,,, for example The Earth, my moustache, birth & death, hot & cold, etc, etc,,. Gallileo proved the Earth was flat. Religion's Reality dictated otherwise and so we have Multiple Realities co-existing. As you can see, pun intended, that "Reality" is quite a Vague Term. Now when you enter the Element of "Awareness" to the concept of Reality only then will you be able to make progress in what YOU deem to be Really Real, so to speak,,,,

Answer 4

Belief in anything is subjective, for people of all religions and for atheists. What we choose to believe is a subjective matter. There's much of the human experience that scientific methodology cannot yet explain, especially things of the inner subjective world. However that doesn't mean those things aren't real, they just aren't measurable in traditional ways.

Knowledge is one. Science is one eye to look at reality through. Religion -- I'm referring to the knowledge system -- is is the other eye. Each emphasizes different aspects of reality, and they are complementary. Religion without science is superstition; science without religion is materialsim.

Answer 5

What no Matrix quotes?

You are right of course, but is "reality" really a good name for something so subjective?

Wouldn't truth be found in the commonalities between the different "realities?" Or is truth subjective too?

Answer 6

I'm an atheist.
Which, by the way, does *not* mean that I "believe" I'm correct. It's a simple rational evaluation of the evidence at hand, no belief involved.

See, that's the problem with "subjective reality" as you put it -- there's no way to judge the validity of anything if it's all subjective. In a subjective reality, you might have felt lighter once while riding in an elevator, and so your subjective reality leads you to conclude that gravity isn't as strong as science claims. That subjective belief could get you into a lot of trouble if you're standing on the edge of a tall building, and think it's OK to hop off because you'll just lightly float to the ground. :)

Of course we all have our own ways of perceiving things, which may differ from the way others perceive things. The great thing about objective reality is that it gives us ways to compare our own perceptions with those of others, and to test the validity of our perceptions in reliable ways. That's how we can agree on the strength of gravity on earth, no matter what our personal perceptions are. Without objective checks of our perception, there's no way to tell what's real and what isn't. Those who accept their own perceptions as real without ever trying to validate them live in a delusional fantasy world. It's possible to live that way, but it's not very practical. And it's awfully hard to accomplish anything useful.

Peace.

Answer 7

There is and can be only ONE reality. There can be many different fantasies. I got into that a long time ago with some fundies. They kept saying - well that is your reality. No there is one reality and many fantasies.

Atheists do not KNOW god does not exist, we are asking for proof. All the fundies can say is that they have proof, but it is somewhere in their heads. Sorry that doesn't cut it as a proof.

You are correct that atheists are objective and believers are subjective. But then how can you prove anything that is subjective. It can ONLY be what they think.

Answer 8

i'm an atheist and i disagree that my vision of reality is purely objective. subjectivity is powerful and it is real. in fact, I would say you have it backwards. I guide my life by ultimate subjectivity - I live by the principles that are meaningful and moral to me. while i use logic and reason often and well, i have a powerful gut instinct that always takes precedence over logic when it kicks in.

i believe in Santa, in Nessie, and despite all the evidence to contest it, in the basically good nature of mankind. i believe dolphins have language just like we do, though there is as yet not one shred of proof (though there is some evidence). more importantly, i know people's beliefs and feelings are an important reality in their lives. i don't treat them lightly, nor do i fail to consider them when making my decisions.

i know there is no god. that is part of my subjective reality. i came to this conclusion through my logic and my feelings. at the same time, i am aware that my reality is just MY reality. it's relative. it's, if i may use the term, gospel truth to me, carved in stone. however, my reality isn't any more real than anybody else's. i understand everyone's reality is relative and i chose to define my own. and i chose to define it not by the words of people who lived thousands of year ago, but because i know that "humans can only know that which they experience for themselves" by my feelings and experiences. my subjectivity defines my reality.

most believers i have met fail to see how reality can be relative. for them, reality is absolute, and can never be anything but absolute. so if they believe something, it must by force be real no matter what experience tells them. if the people/spirit they have chosen to guide their lives states it, then it must be true. subjectivity has no place in their beliefs, unless it passes through the filter of those beliefs. experience is interpreted in light of those beliefs, so that it can never challenge them. i will agree that their reality arises within the mind, but not their own mind, because much like the antivirus which has been affected by a trojan and therefore can't see what it is supposed to be looking for, the mind of the believer sees everything through the stained glass windows of their belief, tainted to suit, so that there is no thought involved in believing. the believer is objective, if one can be so simply by not using their subjectivity. what happens to them, what they feel for themselves does not affect the higher truth they believe in. things they have not experienced are "known" to them. christians know that christ walked on water. others know they will be born again, in different bodies. some know there are virgins waiting for them in heaven. some see heaven as an eternal perfect summer day on earth. some see it as a place of magic. where is experience in any of this?
religion attempts, by definition, to fill the gaps left by experience, and believers accept the fillers as a substitute for experience, allowing them to guide and define their reality.

Answer 9

I understand what you are saying, but as a Christian I see a few flaws with your statement.

The biggest issue I have with what you are saying is that reality is subjective to the believer. Reality is reality, no matter who or what believes it. It will not change just because someone wills it to or "believes" in something.

What differentiates the believer from the unbeliever is the ability to experience that reality. The reality is beyond what is objective and observable. It is the reality of something bigger than ourselves and incomprehensible to the human mind.

I definitley appreciate your question and your thoughts.. Keep up the good work!

:0)

Answer 10

Atheist.

Really? I kind of believe in aliens (No, not little green men, those are gnomes!) I also believe in Faye, Faeries, and other mythological creatures. I just can't see there being a "creator".