When will Muslims and Jehovah's Witnesses realise RC ideas about Mary are not part of Trinitarian doctrine?

Question

The Trinity doctrine has got NOTHING to do with Jesus' earthly mother, Mary, whatsoever. Christian teaching about the Trinity is that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, are in triune fellowship within the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is not a woman! HE is not physical! Mary is not the mother of God! The Bible does not offer a shred of support to Islamic ideas that Christians are saying Mary is God's "wife". And JW arguments keep referring to Mary too, though in different ways, when denying the Trinity. Although this is Roman Catholic teaching, it has nothing to do with Trinity doctrine. Why do they keep doing it? Are they so desperate for ammunition they set up a straw man (or woman, in this case) which they can then knock down easily? Don't they understand what the Trinity teaches? I'd value Mulsim and JW explanations, please, but if anyone else can explain this, feel free!

I'm puzzled at JW answerers professing unawareness that RC ideas about Mary influences THEIR impression of the Trinity. It's in the JW brochure "Should You Believe In The Trinity?". The Catholic Encyclopedia is quoted, all about Mary supposedly being the mother of God and a co-redemptrix - and all this in context of 'explaining' the Trinity doctrine in order to demolish it (pages 3 & 30). If the RC views of Mary have no part to play in the Trinity doctrine (and they don't), why incorporate them?

I appreciate hindutrinity's comments, for they show how dangerous RC ideas about Mary are in maligning and misrepresenting the Trinity doctrine. It's easy to see why many non-Christians think RCism is polytheisitic. Although RCs deny it, to pray to Mary and the Saints is to worship them.

Thanks also to Muslim answers, especially when quoting the Qur'an. This helps us understand where you are coming from. Perhaps you will now see the Trinity better once RC clutter is cleared away Blessings

Answer 1

Now I've read the additional comments I have a clearer understanding of the question. To shed light on how Jehovah's Witnesses have used Roman Catholic beliefs in Mary to muddy the Trinity issue, here is what the brochure "Should you believe in the Trinity?" says:

"If the Trinity is false, it is degrading to Almighty God to call anyone his equal, and even worse to call Mary the 'Mother of God'... Does it honor God to call anyone his equal? Does it honor him to call Mary 'the mother of God' and the 'mediatrix'... between the Creator and his creatures' as does the New Catholic encyclopaedia?"

This gives the (false) impression that Mary being God's mother and a co-redemptrix is part of the Trinity teaching. It isn't. Both those ideas are fairly recent compared with the era when the Trinity doctrine was being clarified prior to 600 A. In the first few centuries, there was no such corruption of teaching. Catholicism only introduced those unbiblical ideas comparatively recently, and biblical Christians abhor them. In this way, Watchtower Society leaders have misrepresented the Trinity doctrine.

Also, Jehovah's Witnesses misunderstand who the Holy Spirit is. Like Muslims, they use lower case h and s, and JW's downgrade the Holy Spirit to a mere force, an "it".

By praying to Mary (as well as to numerous Saints), Catholics are actually worshipping, because to pray to God is to worship God, although not a lot of people realise that. It is therefore understandable that Muslims take Roman Catholic teachings to mean they are polytheistic.

Because both Muslims and Jehovah's Witnesses misunderstand what the trinity teaches, and misunderstand who the Holy Spirit is, it is well nigh impossible for them to see the truth of the trinity; namely that there are not three seperate persons, but that within the Godhead are three triune aspects. I hope I've explained that right.

Just to clear up another misunderstanding - nowhere in the Bible does it suggest that God had sex with Mary. That is an outrageous idea.

When will Muslims and JW's realise RC ideas about Mary are not part of Trinitarian doctrine? Well, perhaps some of the information presented in response to this question will help clear things up a bit.

Answer 2

1. No. Not if you are teaching, what the Bible really teaches. 2. Again, No. The Bible is quite clear as to Jesus' identity and his origin. Jesus was sent BY God Almighty. In the book of John, 176 times Jesus refers to himself and his God and Father as two (2) seperate and distinct individuals. Jesus was the 1st creation of Jehovah. The Bible is very clear on this. Jesus lived for an untold amount of time with his God and Father in heaven. Learning from Him. Before he agreed to come to Earth "take a slaves form." After his mission was accomplished, Jehovah resurrected Jesus, where he shortly returned to heaven.

Answer 3

Yes I understand the trinity has nothing to do with Mary, never heard someone say it did till now. I also know in my heart that the trinity is not Biblical.

Answer 4

Muslims do not believe in the trinity, muslims do not believe that Mary was God' wife., Muslims do not believe that Mary is the mother of God.

Muslims believe in Allah and he is ONE. Muslims believe in Jesus as a prophet, not god or son of god. Muslims believe in the miraculous conception of Jesus. Muslims believe that Mary was a pious woman and the best choice to be the mother of the prophet Jesus.

Answer 5

Unless Catholics are considered totally non Christian, i would say you are completely wrong.

Catholics have been around a lot longer than Protestants and they call Mary the mother of God and they consider her to be a part of Godhead.

Read this :::::

"The three-in-one/one-in-three mystery of Father, Son and Holy Ghost made tritheism official. The subsequent almost-deification of the Virgin Mary made it quatrotheism . . . Finally, cart-loads of saints raised to quarter-deification turned Christianity into plain old-fashioned polytheism. By the time of the Crusades, it was the most polytheistic religion to ever have existed, with the possible exception of Hinduism.

This untenable contradiction between the assertion of monotheism and the reality of polytheism was dealt with by accusing other religions of the Christian fault. The Church - Catholic and later Protestant - turned aggressively on the two most clearly monotheistic religions in view - Judaism and Islam - and persecuted them as heathen or pagan.

The external history of Christianity consists largely of accusations that other religions rely on the worship of more than one god and therefore not the true God. These pagans must therefore be converted, conquered and/or killed for their own good in order that they benefit from the singularity of the Holy Trinity, plus appendages." -- The Doubter's Companion (John Ralston Saul)

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Answer 6

Who knows where RC ideas come from, not the Bible it seems.

Answer 7

I think that its the idea that Jesus is God himself that they cant come to terms with.
To be honest, it doesnt make sense to me either.
How can Jesus be God if he's the son of God? I mean if I had a son he would resemble me but he cant be me can he?

Answer 8

Well Muslims believe that there is only one God... and he never had a son... or a child for that matter.

Surah Ekhlas (#112)...
Say that there is only ONE God... The God that doesn't need anyone or anything but everyone and everything in the world needs it... He doesn't have any children and he wasn't born... And there is no one like him...

Answer 9

Neither the trinity nor Mary-worship is compatible with the bible.

Answer 10

Quite possibly around the same time that Roman Catholics realize that what other religions believe is none of their damn business?