Question about people who criticize the war?

Question

My question relates to Jesse Adam Macbeth who claimed that he took part in the murder of hundreds of Iraqis. He said — "We would burn their bodies ... hang their bodies from the rafters in the mosque." These allegations were picked up by many anti-war groups, including, "Iraq veterans against the war," and several other Web sites and used to paint the U.S. in a bad light .

The fact is whether people want to realize it or not we need people like him in the army because this war is being run wrong , there's no question about it , people like this do make it seem like that is a general feeling among soldiers and that they want to inflict more punishment but then again who can blame them ?

I couldn't believe soldiers are being investigated for killing innocent civilians in Afghanistan after there convoy was attacked by a suicide truck bomber . Put yourself in there shoes - your driving with other soldiers after battling all day long with your fellow men and women most of whom are good friends , your body begging for sleep , all you want is to sleep and your almost there in bed and then all of a sudden a truck bomb goes off killing your close friends . I would have shot everyone in sight as well , not saying its right but its the mindset at the time and I do not believe people looking on from outside , should have any say on someone's mindset who is constantly having to deal with this sort of situation on a almost constant basis .

Anyone agree ?

Answer 1

All groups have liars, including the military. It has also come out that several of the loose cannons claiming to have murdered Iraqis weren't even IN Iraq.

The liberals claim we need to establish a higher ground, the same thing that lost us the war in Nam.

Terrorists do not respect us for our higher ground, they only fear the same treatment they give us, they torture, burn, rape,
and bomb children. So we are supposed to be NICE to them?

Answer 2

There are rules in war, and I think the rule that is getting left behind is, the amount of time a person is on the battle field. Your are correct in noting that when exposed to violent acts by an enemy that looks like everyone around you at some point it becomes easy to shoot anything or any one that moves in a way that appears threatening. To go beyond the act of defending ones self and exacting punishment on those that look as if they have harmed you or your friends.

I believe that if we are to continue this war, and achieve the mission goal, then the draft must be reinstated, to take individuals into battle on a 2 year active term, and rotate out those that have served 2 or 3 tours or have had multiple extended tours. These soldiers need to get away from that mind set, and be brought back to peace. The alternative is Viet Nam all over again, and the delayed stress syndrome that accompanied it. It is time for all Americans that can to take up the burden of the fight.

I do wish that folks at home were not critical of the war, but I see the point, and as conservative as I am I must confess we have to do something or figureout how to get out. I am concerned that soon enough there will be problems in our own country that will need to be delt with and ineffective US fighters in the middle East, can not help with the fight here in the US.

Answer 3

I agree.... Actually our ROE (Rules of Engagement) when I was there (3/03 - 3/04) was if there was a roadside bomb that went off, and you see a person on a cell phone nearby the explosion, then to shoot him....

Whats happening over there right now is confusion on the ROE... If our soldiers are still being told to do that, and then an investigation goes into a "civilian shot while using his cell phone" story, well then it's no wonder everyone here in the states questions why soldiers do stuff like that..... I sometimes wonder if the ROE I had when I was there was made up on the fly...

To me that is why the propoganda war seems to be hurting us more than helping. Along with the fact that the news doesnt cover the good things soldiers do for the Iraqi's. (i.e. Handing out school supplies, soccer balls for the kids, etc.)

Edit:
I dont agree with just killing people like they did in Afghanistan. They went on a shooting spree for about 10 miles... Thats where they went wrong. Should they have shot their way out of that situation???? Maybe for a few seconds to secure the convoy, but not for a 10 mile shooting spree.

Answer 4

How many times must I say: Keep the politicians out of planning war and battle?!?!?! Leave it to the generals. Politics and warfighting do not sleep well together.

The US military investigates and prosecutes those committing war crimes. Courts martial have the most complete set of facts concerning the events. The media does not. The media is simply fanning the flames of the terrorist by publicizing and sensationalizing partial events which occur very seldom. Why do they do this? For money (via ratings) and their own political agenda with total disregard for the national or soldiers' interest.

Both parties are on record stating that Al-Qaeda is in Iraq NOW. The difference is that one party wishes to retreat in the name of "self-determination" of the Iraqi people and the other is half-heartedly keeping us in battle against this enemy. What happened to the unity we had following 9/11? Set the elections and politics aside and determine a plan to keep the terrorists on the defense! If we KNOW the enemy is in Iraq, then we certainly should not retreat from it and hope that we can get permission from some other country to try to find them elsewhere.

Take off the gloves on the right and take off the blinders on the left. Every time America talks of retreat, it strengthens the resolve of our enemy. It lengthens his recruitment lines. Should it occur, AQ will declare victory and enjoy mass popularity. That will be followed by other bombings against us, elsewhere and the American people again asking "Why didn't someone do something to prevent this?"

Thank a soldier with more than a magnetic yellow ribbon on the trunk of your car! Buy him a beer, a meal, some bullets and equipment (via Congress on the last two). He's lived in the worst conditions on earth so you can live in the best. For that, you barely recognize he's been there? Attack the purpose of his service? Put a timeline on his ability to complete the job? Try to pull his funding? You should be pushing for a more aggressive fight, not slamming him for a few errant co-workers! You should be demanding more money for him, not demanding he quit. If the battle is tough, perhaps it's more soldiers we need, not less. (but not a draft!)

At any rate, those that have never been there have no basis for comparison and those that have been there know better than to criticize actions taken. We were not there in that battle! We do not know who did and did not have weapons or where the bullets were coming from. We do know that ALL professions have errant members who commit wrongful acts and we can be proud that even under the bright lights of a journalistic society bent on castrating the American soldier, so few have been accused of *primarily* minor (in comparison to our enemies) acts and fewer still have been charged and convicted of gross criminal acts despite the inhuman acts of our enemy.

Answer 5

I agree, sadly. We have let down our troops and they will suffer physical and mental injuries for lifetimes, if they make it back. But what is the solution? This back door draft is not working. Politicians disagree, nothing gets resolved. It is understandable that war would drive a soldier mad. I would prefer that there was more accountability in higher ranks to support the brave soldier's in times of need. Now they are being played pawns in my opinion, again for political wrangling and personal gain. Bush 2. He needs to micro manage and kick some Brass Butt!!
I believe suicide bombers are WMD and always knew an airplane was a bomb. (ex flight attendant here) But again, Congress and the Hill they all fight and meanwhile our guys die and are destroyed inside and out. I just keep writing on , as u do in hopes the message gets out there. If Madamn Pelosi can post here as well as Hillbill one would hope they get someone to read here too. Wishful thinking! Thanks for your time.
**Recently they changed the do not engage unless fired upon instruction. Now it is acceptable under risk to shoot first, ask questions later. (Army gentleman just back from Iraq I spoke to a month ago.)

Answer 6

Yeah we had some idiots with make believe stories when I was there! One guy we were chaptering because he was a turd, told a chaplain I was making him kill babies! I found out because some people came to visit us in Iraq.... They had my PL and CO and then interviewed each member of my squad then brought me in last I was the squad leader... Basically they told me that this guy said I made him do all these crazy things and I was a terrible person...blah...blah...blah.. Anyways other than a nice laugh, I explained to these people that I only had this guy for a couple days all he did was talk about how he was some big time gang banger and he wanted to get home to his wife cause she was cheating on him!? So you can see where it went! It was a nice laugh!

Answer 7

The kind of thing you describe is why we have civilian oversight of the military. It is very easy to simply react in a blind rage, human nature in fact. The trouble is that it accomplishes nothing but handing the enemy yet another propaganda win. As a navy man I can't pretend to understand what it is like for the soldiers on the ground, but I do know that they are supposed to have been trained to keep their cool and act like professionals, I also believe that the vast majority of them do. That is why the action you describe is the exception, not the rule, and it is why I disagree that we need people like him. If he can't follow orders or the UCMJ he is danger to the mission, and to his fellow troops.

Answer 8

Yep I do. A very well thought out argument. But some of the weenies we have in this country want to blame soldiers because either they never served, were kicked out before going, or claiming they can't kill people because they were too stupid to read there contract. Those folks in my opinion are cowards and do not deserve the protection our military provides. Now if a soldier who served in Iraq got out honorably and criticized the war I would respect that because they were there and they more than anyone have a right to criticize its handling.

Answer 9

You are totally wrong buddy. I support the war, but not this maniacal kill-em-all attitude you hold. The US is great because it's good. The minute we stop being good, we stop being great. So what if the enemy's tactics are barbaric? That doesn't mean we have to be, and we won't lose while we do it. Actions like the Haditha killings etc... hurt the US image, and does not promote the US as an ally in the eyes of Middle Easterners. It also increases the likelihood of creating more terrorists. Put YOURSELF in THEIR shoes, how would you like it if some soldier shot your family to pieces because he had a "bad day".

Answer 10

you're precise! he's a Hero. John McCain spent each and every minute of those 5 and 0.5 years thinking approximately this u . s . and how plenty he could desire to alter it for the extra advantageous. He then spent 35 years only waiting for the suited 2d. he's a guy of super persistence! if truth be told, a hero like that could desire to gladly spend fifty years, perhaps a hundred, scuffling with to WIN. this is how heroic he's. I admit, i became somewhat demanding approximately Palin, on the beginning up. i presumed she regarded green, and became chosen only for photograph. yet McCain suggested "a maverick with a checklist of reform alternatives a maverick with a checklist of reform"! And after all, McCain is experienced in all issues. he's a hero. and then there have been some unusual thoughts. Palin's husband works for great oil. yet McCain suggested she is a reformer, and he's a conflict hero. next we heard Palin became banning books and firing liberal librarians. Then Palin became applying her political potential to seek for revenge on her brother-in-regulation. It regarded like corruption. yet McCain suggested she is a reformer, and McCain is a POW, after all. Heroes understand superb.

Answer 11

Yes, I do agree with you and I also see your point.

I was in the military and the ONLY way that you get through things that you are put through is because of the people directly to your right and to your left...they are your family.

I personally feel that this whole f'ing admin. needs to be held accountable for the war crimes that they have committed all for oil.

Alan...exactly WHO are the insurgents? They are IRAQI'S who are fighting for power within their government.