Why so many disagreements among Christians about whether or not God intended for Adam & Eve to fall?

Question

Many many people told me in their responses to my first Adam and Eve related question that God had intended for Adam and Eve to fail and fall (according to several answers, in order for us to attain free will but also necessitating the blood sacrifice atonement for original sin):
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070521201633AAS1ID2

Many people in their responses to my second Adam and Eve related question told me that God had NOT intended for Adam and Eve to fail and fall, that he may or may not have foreseen it and allowed it, but that it definitely wasn't his intent.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070521203015AAzXtW4

Why such divergent views? Wouldn't the scripture be very clear about this? Does this conflict of beliefs concern anyone, or is it irrelevant? And how can I tell which position is correct?

Answer 1

Hehe, I'm typing this so much now that my fingers do it automatically after the first word:

Faith is not about what you believe - it's about what you can make yourself ignore.

Answer 2

If God might have created Bruce and Molly rather of Adam and Eve the outcomes could have been an identical. If every person has their own loose will sin will effect. In answer to your question, the only different decision is to no longer have created mankind in any respect. yet God says that this is solid that he created guy on day 6. it form of feels angels even have loose will. We study in Rev. 12 that devil took a third of the angels with him. for sure this works in God's plans. we are actually not conscious approximately each and every of the mysteries of God. I disagree that we in our finite minds have a gripe against a limiteless God whose creation does the two solid an evil. however the subject is, till God only created desktops to be programed to easily do solid could desire to we've this appropriate sinless international. So, the wonderful answer to those human beings it bothers is the only thank you to stay away from sin is to abolish all their loose will, or on no account create them in any respect.

Answer 3

While there are a great many things in the Bible, clear answers are not always one of them. It is my opinion that Adam and Eve were intended to fall. If you believe that God is all knowing, past, present and future, he would have seen this prior to the event happening. As well, it does coincide with the free will aspect, as had they not fallen, man would be more like robots, with no free will, as opposed to the mankind that we are.

Answer 4

I take the Ancient Riddles with their due intent. It's much like a toymaker who makes an expendable product, not designed to last a lifetime. The fault inherent in humans is the same reason their lives are worthwhile.
Courage is never demonstrable in Heaven, where those beings are deathless and cannot be injured. Only here.
"Oh Mighty Caesar, we who are about to die, salute Thee!"-means nothing, if not implicitly true.

Answer 5

I think the Bible isn't that clear on it because it's irrelevant now. I personally believe it's like any other bad thing that happens to us -- God would rather we not go through it, but God can work these things for good. People had free will before this, though.

Answer 6

Putting Adam and Eve in the garden - telling them 'you can do whatever you want - but DONT EAT THE FRUIT FROM THIS BIG SHINY TREE RIGHT HERE IN THE GARDEN' pretty much gauranteed the result.

Then he let satan in.

They obviously fall for it - and get kicked out. Somehow I am responsible for this, and have to believe in Jesus in order to keep from going to hell.

Sounds feasible....

Answer 7

If you knew the absolute answer to these questions you would be a prophet, just collect information and try to come up with the best opinion for yourself. If you want a completely different take on the Book of Genesis read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn, its interesting.

Answer 8

Either way, it doesn't cast the god of the bible in a very good light. This is one of the first things I contemplated when I started losing my faith.

To me, the *evidence* suggests that god set them up to fail. I mean, if he designed everything, he didn't have to put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden. And he certainly didn't have to make it a tree with edible fruit. Obviously, god would have known that satan was already here and he had to have known that satan would try to undermine his creation, so he could have set the garden up to make it harder for satan to tempt the people he'd created. People often compare god to a concerned parent ... tell me, Zero -- do you leave the Chlorox out in easy reach but tell your son not to drink it? You seem like a good mother, so of course you don't. Concerned parents understand that their children have free will, but they don't put them in situations that would make it easy for them to get seriously hurt.

I guess for them, its like choosing the lesser of two evils. Do you believe that your god intended for the world to be a fallen creation, or do you believe that he just sat back and allowed everything he'd designed fall to pieces? Wow, thanks for reminding me why I'm glad I'm an atheist. :)

Answer 9

God placed Adam and Eve int eh garden with the forbidden tree. We agree God is all knowing therefore foreknew the outcome. The story shows God's plan for his creation the tree of knowledge and the tree of life were both in the midst of the garden. These two trees represent the two natures of God. God righteousness and his mercy. God's righteousness is the law it was death to man because man is not righteous. When God gave man the law did he think man was going to be able to be perfect under the law? Of course not God is all knowing he knew man would fall...It is the reason the tree of life was also in the garden. Eat of this tree and you will live forever it is God's Mercy and salvation through Jesus Christ.

John 6:49-58

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Glitter God does not control the future but does have a permissive will and is all knowing. God allowed for man to choose sin he even knew man had a sin nature he did not cause man to sin.

Answer 10

I get a kick out of the newbies who don't know who Zero Cool is then tell her to get a life. lol Perhaps you should read some of her questions and answers before opening your yap.

Anyway, IMO you cannot have a god who knows all but doesn't see the fall coming. And on the other hand, you can't have a god that sees and controls the future and still have free will. Why they can't see this is beyond me.

Answer 11

It always amazes me when people expect Christians to know the mind of God. Although that is certainly a goal, and we should work toward it through Scripture and prayer, noone ever achieves it until they meet Him, and His loves surrounds us like a warm blanket on a cold night.