Another purgatory question?

Question

Scripture ref: Luke 23:42-43

42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." 43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." NKJV

Now my question is this; if there is "purgatory" as some are taught then how is it Jesus, himself tells the man on the cross next to him, ..."Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Serious answers only. I am asking this respectfully and expect respectful answers. Thanks in advance and blessings!

This passage refers to the work we do here on earth. Either we have done it with the right motives and it will pass through the fire...or we did it with the wrong motives and it will burn like chaff. First judgment happens when we die...Heaven or Hades. The second judgment is how we lived our lives on earth as Christians (see the scripture above.)

1 Corinthians 3:14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. NKJV

Below, this age refers to the here and now. The age to come refers to what happens after death: Heaven or Hades.

Matt 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. NKJV

Where does purgatory fit into either of these scriptures? I don't see it.

Answer 1

I personally have never seen scripture to support the theory of purgatory.

It's not a Biblical teaching either.

Peace be with you.

Answer 2

Well this sinner on the cross confessed to Jesus that he is God and Jesus being God could have brought him up to heaven. Just think the first one in heaven was a sinner that converted on his lasts breaths. This however does not negate purgatory for if you read 1 Corinthians 3:14–15: and Matthew 12:32 we see that Jesus says that some sins will be forgiven in the age to come which cannot be this age but purgatory. We must read the Bible as a whole.

Answer 3

That was also the day the man was baptized with Jesus real blood. Baptism creates a new person and all past sins are forgiven and cleansed and he was without any blemish then so he went to Heaven. People , even though they have no serious sin on their soul, still need like a bleach cycle before they get into Heaven usually (not all the time though, there are Saints) but, usually there is a bit of gossip or a little white lie or something that needs to be cleaned up.

Answer 4

There are many misconceptions about Purgatory, most of which can be read in the other posts.

There ARE only two places after this life - Heaven and Hell. Purgatory is not so much a place, but a process by which those who have been judged worthy of entry into Heaven are purged of any flaw on their soul caused by their sinfulness in this life.

Bishop Fulton Sheen said to think of a nail driven into a piece of wood. The nail is the sin. Once the nail is removed, there is still a hole in the wood. In Purgatory, God fills in the holes so the piece of wood is restored to its initial perfection.

Who knows how long you spend in Purgatory? Once we leave this life, we are no longer bound by time. To those still in this life, souls may be in Purgatory for years, or days, or minutes, or less than a second. no one really knows. A soul is in purgatory long enough to be perfected.

Answer 5

Mere reason suggests there must be a Purgatory. So many people seem to be good, but not so greatly good that they should be fit for heaven at once. Again, not nearly all are so evil as to deserve hell. So there should be a means of purification and paying the debt of temporal punishment for those not fit for hell, nor for heaven at once. (Of course Luther would say we can sin all we want and still go to heaven at once, if only we believe it is all covered by Christ's merits: Epistle 501 to Melanchthon).

There is not much in Scripture on Purgatory except that in Second Maccabees 12:45, Judas sends a collection to the Temple for those fallen in battle, found with amulets on, "that they might be freed from this sin." Luther saw so clearly that this referred to Purgatory--which he rejected--that he rejected this book too, declaring it not part of Scripture. Some have tried to see an implication of Purgatory in Matthew 12:32. There Jesus speaks of the sin against the Holy Spirit that will be forgiven "neither in this world nor in the next." But the expression quoted is known in Rabbinic literature, where it means merely "never." Still less could we deduce purgatory from First Corinthians 3:11-15. Paul means if the work of some Christian worker has been of such low quality that it burns down, he himself will be saved "as through fire." But the fire seems to mean the apocalyptic fire of the last day, not a fire of purgatory.

But our belief in Purgatory rests on the tradition and definitions of the Church, at the Councils of Lyons II, Florence, and Trent.

The essential, perhaps the only suffering of Purgatory is the loss of God--it is like what we described in speaking of hell, except that in Purgatory there is no despair, rather, great consolation from assurance of salvation. Is there also something like fire in Purgatory? A host of private apparitions say there is; the Church has never pronounced on it. In fact the Eastern part of the Catholic Church has no such tradition. Many theologians say the suffering is greater than anything on earth. Neither Scripture nor Tradition tells us if that be so.

We do know that the souls there cannot merit or help themselves in any way anymore, they can only suffer. We know we can by prayers and penances relieve them, and somehow, they are enabled to know it when we do that, and they pray for us. How long should we pray and sacrifice for a particular soul? We do not know. St. Augustine in his Confessions (9:13), written 10 to 15 years after the death of his mother, St. Monica, still asked for prayers for her. If we can believe the private apparitions, Purgatory may last the equivalent of many years (we speak thus, for there is no time in Purgatory). For certain, it is terribly wrong to virtually canonize a person at the funeral, as Protestants do under the influence of Luther's sad mistake. Sadly not a few Catholics are imitating them.

Biblical references:

Lk 12:58-59; 1 Cor 3:15; Mt 5:25-26 ... temporary agony. Heb 12:6-11 ... God’s painful discipline. Mt 12:32 ... no forgiveness ... nor in the age to come. 1 Pet 3:18-20 ... might be purgatory (limbo?). 1 Pet 4:6 ... preached to the dead. Rev 21:27 ... nothing unclean shall enter heaven. Heb 12:23 ... souls in heaven are perfect. Col 1:24; 2 Sam 12:13-14 ... “extra” suffering. 2 Mac 12:43-46 ... sacrifice for the dead. 2 Tim 1:15-18 ... prayer for Onesiphorus for “that Day.” 1 Jn 5:14-17 ... mortal/venial sins

Answer 6

Catholic christian purgatory is a place where those whom are not totally pure are sent for final purification from their sins. The man on the cross next to Jesus asked for forgiveness, and so he was forgiven of the original sin, leaving him eligible for purgatory. Once a soul is purified, he may enter Gods Kingdom.

Answer 7

Purgatory exists, but that doesn't mean that everyone goes there.

The criminal crucified on Jesus' right -- who the Catholic Church identifies as St. Dismas -- was blessed. Not in the sense that he was crucified, of course, but blessed in the sense that he had direct access to the Lord at the time of His death.

Dismas was the only person in the Bible to whom Jesus personally promised salvation. As such, there was no need for him to go through purgatory.

Dismas' love for God and his sorrow for his sins were perfect and complete before his death, when he begged Jesus to remember him. For many of us, though, our love for God and our sorrow for our sins will not be perfect after we die. They will be good enough so as to avoid hell, but they will be "not quite there" as far as entering Heaven, where the Bible says nothing unclean will be allowed.

Thus, purgatory is that spiritual state where whatever self-love is remaining is transformed into perfect love for God.

This is all quite Biblical. Jesus speaks of being put in prison until the last penny is paid. Paul speaks of being purified "as through fire" after death. And 2 Maccabees speaks of praying for the dead so that they can be loosed from their sins -- which can't happen either in Hell (where it's impossible) or in Heaven (where it's not needed).

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Answer 8

Simply put, purgatory is a theological concept based on reason and logic while this passage is about spreading the message of Jesus. Assuming this scene happened just as described and Jesus said those words, keep in mind that he wasn't doing theology - he knew he was going to be someplace better and knew that the man next to him was not destined to be in hell.

Answer 9

The beautiful recounting of the words of Jesus to the good thief (Luke 23:43), to whom legend gives the name St. Dismas, tells us nothing about purgatory, either for the thief or for us. It is possible the suffering of the thief on the cross and his intense contrition and love were sufficient to expiate all the temporal punishment that was due to his sins. Also, we have no idea about he duration of purgatory in temporal terms. Jesus said "Amen I say to you, this day you will be with me in paradise". But the Bible says, "… one day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." (2 Peter 3:8) How long in our kind of measurement was "this day" of which Christ spoke? Jesus Himself ascended into heaven only forty days after His resurrection (Acts of the Apostles 1:3). We do not know.

But that does not negate the fact that somewhere besides heaven exists for saved souls who are not yet pur, for 'nothing unclean shall enter heaven'

If you are truly interested in what we believe and why, here is a link for you.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

Answer 10

Catholics believe in purgatory most other religions do not. In christianity there is only a Heaven and a Hell. God is not going to have yopu hanging around for him to make a decision. He knows before you die where you are headed. You go either place by how you lived you life. There is no maybe or possible. Either you lived a good christian life or you didn't. Remember are sins are forgiven and if you accept Christ it is only through him you get to that paradise.

Answer 11

Purgatory is a place of punishment for the sins that we have committed. We can do penance and make sacrifices while still here on earth to attone for our sins to lessen our stay in Purgatory. Perhaps the theif on the cross offered his suffering to attone for his sins. Maybe he did his purgatory on the cross. Just a thought. Good question.

God bless,
Stanbo