Organised non-religious group with moral guidelines. Would it work? Would you join? any suggestions?

Question

My last two questions in this area seemed to fail considerably. My ideas were not accepted much at all, but I will persevere even if it seems arrogant.
I think I have repeatedly worded my questions wrong, people seem to think that what I am trying to think about is another religion, rather than a replacement for religion. The basic idea is that religion as an organized group of supernatural believers is coming to an end in many countries, leaving behind a moral abyss. This needs to be filled with some kind of moral guidance, possibly inspired by humanism, which will protect organized society, the Earths ecology and the human race by making sure that people are taught the correct morals, rather than morals that could be taught wrongly through, say, gang culture.

Morals need to be taught because I believe that they do not come naturally, they are acquired over time from your parents, peers, figures of authority and religion.

OK , I see that there is no real demand for a movement of this type. I seems to already exist it many forms and many people feel that morals will teach themselves. People are also saying that the whole idea is flawed in the ways it could be organized, fair point.

The theory behind this was that people naturally need to belong to some kind of group with a definite leader, and that without religion a new way of doing this must be found. I also thought that a lack of religion would have negative moral effects and that these need to be combated.

People who say that atheists can cope on their own are wrong. Some can, but not all can, that is the reason for organizations like the Humanists and the Church of Reality.

Answer 1

Your idea sucks.

People aren't going to "be good" unless they get something out of it.

Answer 2

There is no 'moral abyss' caused by people leaving religion. That is very uninformed and frankly stupid. Religion has no ownership of ethics and morals. They were around, discussed and debated thousands of years before idiot christians hijacked them.

Read a bit on the Ancient Greeks.

People accept the morals and behavior of the society they are raised in. If they don't they end up in jail, or institutionalized. That has nothing to do with organized religion. A society may have many different groups of wackos believing in flying invisible creatures, but they do not make the rules.

Morals are not taught, neither is the knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. They are however, learned. Through trial and error and observation.

Finally, it is commonly known that of prison inmates 90% or so proclaim to be a member of one organized religion or another. I guess they just forgot about the whole morals thing huh?

Answer 3

I don't buy the argument that relieving people of their religious delusions leaves a "moral abyss." If anything, dogmatic religion - especially Christianity - prevents people from being truly moral in any meaningful sense of the word. "Morality" is reduced to the rote following out of a set of dead conventions in the hopes of getting into God's Clubhouse when one dies. It's selfish brownie-point-gaming.

Nor can I accept the idea that civilization, without some sort of supernaturally-enforced absolute standard of morality, would fall into anarchy.

"Christians" apparently believe that were it not for the cautionary tales of the Bible, crystalized (supposedly) in the Ten Commandments, they'd all be running amok with meat cleavers. I submit that it's more likely that in spite of their religion, most Christians are actually decent people possessed of a conscience, an innate sense of right and wrong; and that this is what keeps them from slaughtering the neighbors and drinking their blood (or whatever atheists are supposed to do with their spare time in lieu of going to church). Most human beings are more or less empathetic, and implicitly understand that their own prosperity is bound up with that of their neighbors. They understand that society is about mutual support and protection. They understand, in short, that it's in their own best interests to look out for the interests of others. This again is selfish, but it's honest, rational selfishness!

There will always be exceptions to this general rule, whether we impose an artificial religious construct on society or not. Sociopathy is not a function of atheism. Nor does anybody *really* forgo a given crime on the basis of what's written in the Bible (or what-not).

Answer 4

If not by religion, people need to be bound together by some common belief, goal or purpose. The only one that I can think of that has worked for a long time is Alcoholics Anonymous. They have a set of moral guidelines (the 12 steps). Most recovery programs are based on their tenets.

Answer 5

Although the Boy Scouts have some confession of God...I wouldn't call them a religious group by any means.

I would not join a humanistic movement no, but I am sure many would. I do think though that you need to read Nietzsche and understand his points if your are humanist. He would not like such an idea in that it would generally defeat the purpose of such philosophy and of why religion in general is bad.

Answer 6

For this to succeed, there must be one set of morals, yes? So there has to be a standard. What do you think should be the source of the standard? What shall be the touchstone of the morals? Shall they be the opinions of others? The opinions of many? Or perhaps the feelings of the majority?

You mentioned "correct morals" rather than those taught through "gang culture." Who shall determine which morals are "correct?"

I agree with you that, for the most part, morals do not come naturally. Some do but the vast majority do not. That being so, who shall teach them? Who sets the standard? And once that standard is determined, who has the authority and the power to enforce them? For if we do not have a standard by a proper authority, shall we simply not have people turning to others and saying: "You are not the boss of me! That moral may be good for you but it is not good for me!"

Hannah J Paul

Answer 7

Big Question !!!

Here are some of my collection ;
"All intelligent thoughts have already been thought; what is necessary is only to try to think them again."
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"When you change the way you look at thing - the thing you look at changes "
Dr Wayne Dyer's "Power of Intention"

"One must be able to see the Tree from the Forest"
Forest is a concept - But Tree is Real (No tree then No forest)

'organized group' (try to think again of its meaning) is already exists - The remaining thing to do is to Re-Connect it as coherrent as it is in the First place ::
- Self (are you One already ? why there is need to find Oneself)
- Family
- Circle of friends
...
you name it

Cheers

Answer 8

Join an atheist organisation. That fits your description adequately well, although you seem to be saying that atheists are not moral - a false assumption.

Moral teaching is doing fine as it is. The problem is not in teaching morality but ignoring it. We need to remove the sucker-punches such as television and advertising which teach the individual 'rights' over the common good.

Answer 9

It's called the Ethical Society. They did my wedding ceremony.

You should also check out Unitarians. While they do pull from Judeo-Christian traditions, they shy away from dogma and specific religious beliefs... it's more about helping people find their own spirituality. You can be a Christian OR an atheist and get a lot out of their services.

Answer 10

Your beginning to sound like a Marxist or Communist, have you studied these philosophies? History teaches us that people need to be leave in something other than just an authority.

Answer 11

I swear I thought it was just a bowling league. But now that you mention it, the color coordinated shirts, the names like Bubba and Tiny, the mindless way the women keep getting beer. Ohhhh, somebody help me. I need an intervention.