Question, if Protestantism teaches a belief in the invisible Body of Christ than how come?

Question

Question, if Protestantism teaches a belief in the invisible Body of Christ than how come they deny the communion of saints in heaven who also form part of that one Body and can pray for us or intercede in Christ's mediatorship?

Let me ask it another way, if a Christian can pray let us say for other people, other Christians half way round the world in Africa who they've never physically met why therefore is it impossible for another group of Christians (those in heaven now with Jesus) to also pray for their spiritual brothers in Christ here still on earth?

with the exception of everydaycatholic all the posters so far are attempting to derail this question into arguments on idolatry. Please stick to the question asked on the spiritual nature of Christ's one Body, the Church.

Answer 1

Sometimes Fundamentalists object to asking our fellow Christians in heaven to pray for us by declaring that God has forbidden contact with the dead in passages such as Deuteronomy 18:10–11. In fact, he has not, because he at times has given it—for example, when he had Moses and Elijah appear with Christ to the disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:3). What God has forbidden is necromantic practice of conjuring up spirits. "There shall not be found among you any one who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, any one who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer. . . . For these nations, which you are about to dispossess, give heed to soothsayers and to diviners; but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you so to do. The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren—him you shall heed" (Deut. 18:10–15).

God thus indicates that one is not to conjure the dead for purposes of gaining information; one is to look to God’s prophets instead. Thus one is not to hold a seance. But anyone with an ounce of common sense can discern the vast qualitative difference between holding a seance to have the dead speak through you and a son humbly saying at his mother’s grave, "Mom, please pray to Jesus for me; I’m having a real problem right now." The difference between the two is the difference between night and day. One is an occult practice bent on getting secret information; the other is a humble request for a loved one to pray to God on one’s behalf.



Some may grant that the previous objections to asking the saints for their intercession do not work and may even grant that the practice is permissible in theory, yet they may question it on other grounds, asking why one would want to ask the saints to pray for one. "Why not pray directly to Jesus?" they ask.

The answer is: "Of course one should pray directly to Jesus!" But that does not mean it is not also a good thing to ask others to pray for one as well. Ultimately, the "go-directly-to-Jesus" objection boomerangs back on the one who makes it: Why should we ask any Christian, in heaven or on earth, to pray for us when we can ask Jesus directly? If the mere fact that we can go straight to Jesus proved that we should ask no Christian in heaven to pray for us then it would also prove that we should ask no Christian on earth to pray for us.

Praying for each other is simply part of what Christians do. As we saw, in 1 Timothy 2:1–4, Paul strongly encouraged Christians to intercede for many different things, and that passage is by no means unique in his writings. Elsewhere Paul directly asks others to pray for him (Rom. 15:30–32, Eph. 6:18–20, Col. 4:3, 1 Thess. 5:25, 2 Thess. 3:1), and he assured them that he was praying for them as well (2 Thess. 1:11). Most fundamentally, Jesus himself required us to pray for others, and not only for those who asked us to do so (Matt. 5:44).

Since the practice of asking others to pray for us is so highly recommended in Scripture, it cannot be regarded as superfluous on the grounds that one can go directly to Jesus. The New Testament would not recommend it if there were not benefits coming from it. One such benefit is that the faith and devotion of the saints can support our own weaknesses and supply what is lacking in our own faith and devotion. Jesus regularly supplied for one person based on another person’s faith (e.g., Matt. 8:13, 15:28, 17:15–18, Mark 9:17–29, Luke 8:49–55). And it goes without saying that those in heaven, being free of the body and the distractions of this life, have even greater confidence and devotion to God than anyone on earth.

Also, God answers in particular the prayers of the righteous. James declares: "The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. Elijah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit" (Jas. 5:16–18). Yet those Christians in heaven are more righteous, since they have been made perfect to stand in God’s presence (Heb. 12:22-23), than anyone on earth, meaning their prayers would be even more efficacious.

Having others praying for us thus is a good thing, not something to be despised or set aside. Of course, we should pray directly to Christ with every pressing need we have (cf. John 14:13–14). That’s something the Catholic Church strongly encourages. In fact, the prayers of the Mass, the central act of Catholic worship, are directed to God and Jesus, not the saints. But this does not mean that we should not also ask our fellow Christians, including those in heaven, to pray with us.

In addition to our prayers directly to God and Jesus (which are absolutely essential to the Christian life), there are abundant reasons to ask our fellow Christians in heaven to pray for us. The Bible indicates that they are aware of our prayers, that they intercede for us, and that their prayers are effective (else they would not be offered). It is only narrow-mindedness that suggests we should refrain from asking our fellow Christians in heaven to do what we already know them to be anxious and capable of doing.



In Heaven and On Earth


The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us. Thus in Psalms 103, we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20-21). And in Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!" (Ps. 148:1-2).

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, we read: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3-4).

And those in heaven who offer to God our prayers aren’t just angels, but humans as well. John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). The simple fact is, as this passage shows: The saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Answer 2

Hi Pastor Billy,it`s a little late I know but I have just logged in and spotted your post and with the exception of a few the rest are the usual predictable repetitive droning of dyed in the wool purists.
I will not attempt an answer as the few decent one`s you got are sufficient but here is something to consider.
It is a fact is it not that Jesus spoke in two ways one being metaphor and the other solemnly, in other words parable and no nonsense direct verbage.
Now at the last supper when Jesus instituted the Eucharist with the well known words`This is My Body,this is My Blood` etc, which to anyone with a brain was not parable speak but solemnity; direct and to the point, yet the reformers stole the sacredness of these words and replaced them with figurative speech instead, the same applies to John: 6.53, which the Apostles later found out was not figurative but literal.
The clincher though is the fact that in removing the literal sense of Matthew 16:18, Thou art Peter etc, they made a ready excuse to debunk the Apostolic tradition of the Catholic church and yet even today we see the hypocrisy that is very much prevalent in Protestantism namely, the `We stick to the letter of the Gospels` and on it goes.
Of course it is evidant that in order to substantiate their claims they have to remove any such claim to Apostolic tradition of the Catholic church and make some sort of excuse for the many splinter groups within Protestantism today.
However when a Catholic puts it to them that Christ has only one body and not two or twenty-two etc, they also like to claim that Christ has taken the authority of His church from Catholicism and has now given this authority to them.
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!!!

Answer 3

There are two issues here:

1) What is meant by the invisible church?

When Christians talk about the invisible church they are simply referring to the believers beyond the local church that they are gathered with. At least that's how I use that term and understand by it.

2) Are the saints in heaven praying for the saints on earth?

To my knowledge there is NO SCRIPTURAL RECORD of saints who are in heaven praying for believers who are on earth.

Your argument goes this way:

1. The church consists of believers (dead and alive)
2. All believers pray for one another
Therefore, the saints who died and are now in heaven are also praying for us.

While the argument may be valid, it does not make it true. Unless one can show by way of Scriptures that the saints in heaven are praying for the saints on earth, the Roman Catholics have not proven this doctrine to be true.

Answer 4

I think they are hung up on their definition of "pray". To them, "to pray" means "to worship" while the Catholic sees it as "to worship is to pray".

Even when they get it in their head that we are not worshipping Mary and the saints in Heaven, they still can nnot get past the stumbling block of praying to them, so they state that no where in hte Bible does it say to pray to them or that they cannot hear us.

Additionally, non-Catholics think that catholics pray ONLY to Mary and the saints and never to God. This is not true, we pray to God AND the saints, but the prayers are very different.

First, there is no example of people praying to the believers in Heaven because the believers were still alive at the time of the New Testament.

Second, it DOES say that we should pray for one another because the prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.. You cannot get more righteous that being in Heaven with God.

Also, Mary and the saints are not MEDIATORS, they are INTERCESSORS. A mediator is someone you go through to get to the other person. There can be only one mediator, Jesus Christ, because only Jesus Christ is both God and Man. An intercessor is someone who speaks up for you. We are ALL called to be intercessors for one another to God. i should pray for you and you should pray for me.

Answer 5

The Protestant position is just plain ignorance (or denial) of fact and common sense. They attribute all prayer to worship, and that simply just isn't the case. There is intercessory prayer and request prayer. Even when prayer is directed to God, asking Him for something, that is not worship but request, even though it's being directed to God Himself.

Protestants (most of them) believe in the existence of the human soul. It naturally follows, then, that if the soul survives the body after death, then it is ALIVE. It has to be somewhere (heaven?). If the soul is the seat of our being, our consciousness and everything about us, then, yes, the souls in heaven are alive and well and can help us if needed. Yet Protestants insist we are worshiping them through prayer, ignoring the fact that our prayers are nothing more than requests - questions ("Hey, can you help me?"). A question is not worship.

Hopefully a little bit of logic and reason will show them this. If not, there's always prayer.

Answer 6

I agree. I do my acceptable to no longer stereotype, yet definite I even have encountered greater hatered, ridicule and rejection interior the face of Christians than I even have present day in the different non secular doctrine. What i come across "humorous" in examining the quite some solutions is that "Pagan's can't be Christ-Like because of the fact they don't have faith what the bible says approximately Him". somebody please clarify to me how this isn't any longer so. If Pagan's instruct an identical characteristics and character features that Christ portrayed, how are they no longer Christ like. Jesus did no longer have a denomination that He accompanied!! there have been no genuine divisions interior the church at that factor different than Jewish or Roman. Now, Jesus replaced right into a Jew, yet he did no longer "stick to" their non secular doctrine, does that make him any much less Jewish? Why, as a Christian, do you have chose to assert to somebody "properly yeah, you have all an identical features and character features that Christ had, yet that doesn't make you Christ-like." that could desire to be like telling a Math Genuis "properly you're super at Math and all, yet on account which you do no longer appear as if or stick to the acceptable course that Einstein did, sorry we purely can't say your a genius."! Come on human beings. God/insert deity did no longer create the separation is the non secular doctrines guy variety did. For those of you who carry so tightly to your faith which you will no longer even admit that somebody who isn't Christian can nonetheless be Christ-Like, properly i think greater sorry for you than I ever have. To think of that the term Christ-Like can purely be conscious to Christians, properly you're lacking out on a appropriate occasion of ways Christianity isn't the top all be all answer and there are those people who stay our lives as examples to all, and a super variety of persons are greater useful Christians as Non-Christians than lots of your fellow believers are Christians and declare the call of Christianity. that's amazingly unhappy certainly while a physically powerful occasion is ridiculed as a physically powerful occasion.

Answer 7

Protestants have misunderstood what Catholics do. No surprise there.

But the answers you've received are interesting. "Praying to" is the same as worship? It's not in the Bible? We're told not to pray to spirits or the dead? Wow...

Worship is for God alone. Intercession can be done by anyone on earth or in heaven.

It is in the Bible...intercession is very scriptural. http://www.allaboutprayer.org/prayers-of-intercession-faq.htm

We are not to pray to the dead. What Deuteronomy is referring to is the practice of pagans. Those we pray to for intercession are NOT dead...they live in Christ. They are alive as Christ has taught us! If you are a Christian, why would you think that Christians who have died are dead? Isn't being a Christian exactly that we believe in life after death because of the resurrection?

All of this amazes me. As a practicing and devout Catholic, I can tell you beyond all doubt...that I worship ONLY God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. I honor and respect Mary and the Saints and pray to them asking for intercession. These people (Mary and the Saints) love God and love Christ, many of them died for him. They are not people who would even accept worship of any kind. All of our prayers are in turn offered to our Lord...for his glory.

Sorry for rambling...I'm addressing the answers you got...not your post! You are correct...they are not.

Answer 8

Christ came to earth and died on the cross for our sins. He rose again and is sitting at God's right hand. Jesus is the only mediator between us and God. Read Hebrew 8. 9. and 10. God Bless

Answer 9

If those who have 'gone on in Christ" are "absent from the body and present to the Lord" then ,if they are not morally inferior and lacking in compassion ,they must be praying for and with us as we join in their adoration of the Lamb.

Answer 10

Don't know, but I think if a lot of prayer goes to specific saints they are going to get overloaded (if direct communion with them is possible) since they are only human spirits. E.g. the blessed Virgin Mary cannot possibly answer millions of prayers each day except in the most general terms.

Answer 11

What Protestants reject is the prayer to, and adoration of, the saints (and also of Mary).

We primarily base our premise on the verse, "There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and human beings-the man, Christ Jesus." (I Timothy 2:5)