why would god require faith without proof?

Question

randy g - but why would he not talk to us like he supposedly spoke to the first humans. why wouldn't he for instance, start us all out in heaven, tell us, "these are my rules, obey them or be punished" then send us off to be born. before the 1600s few groups outside of christians and their neighbors knew any more than that they existed, let alone anything about them. are they to have a different set of ethereal standards? did they go to heaven if they were a good person, and anyone who just didn't believe go to hell, even if they were equally good? and why do you say that god has to be liked to be believed in? in my experience it's less being liked and more being feared.

dee hat - i have faith that when i see a shadow moving in front of me when the light is behind that there is something arriving that is blocking the light, creating a shadow. that isn't because i have faith in god, but because i have faith in what i understand to be the laws of nature.

Answer 1

You've really got to hand it to the church. They knew exactly how to suck naive people in and keep them. Just tell them that doubting would mean their faith isn't strong enough and they'd go to hell. That way no one ever asks for proof as it'd mean their faith wasn't strong enough. Masters of manipulation.

Answer 2

The short answer is that God has provided enough circumstantial evidence that those who like him can believe, but not enough evidence to convince those who do not like him or his rules ever to accept.

If God just boomed out of the heavens, "believe in me or go to hell", that would be a little coercive, now wouldn't it? What would happen to free will then?

===edit===

Well, why does God have to repeat himself? Like Jesus said, if someone doesn't believe Moses and the prophets, then she won't believe someone who came back from the dead, either.

People who don't want to obey God will always find an excuse not to believe, no matter what God does.

Answer 3

God tests us to see if we will first accept Him by faith alone. He provides the proof once we confess our belief. Sadly,many fail this simple test.

Answer 4

Excellent question, if anybody is capable of providing empirical proof it would be a real god and if he really cared, he would want to do that for his "children", especially those who ask genuine questions

Answer 5

It is easier for a nonexistent god to exist by means of faith rather than proof of existence, hence the nonexistence.

Answer 6

Basis for Faith in God
AMONG the definitions that one dictionary gives for faith is “firm and unquestioning belief in something for which there is no proof.” But, really, that definition more accurately describes credulity, a readiness to believe regardless of evidence. Credulity is really not faith. The faith in God the Creator that the Bible calls for, and for which it also furnishes the basis, is a faith based on clear evidence and sound reasoning.

Scientists are said to have faith in the basic principles governing their particular fields of knowledge. The farmer proceeds on what may be called faith in the regularity of the seasons. And many more examples could be given to show that men put their trust and faith in the dependability and regularity of the natural cycles and laws that govern the universe. Actually, this regularity in itself argues for the existence of an intelligent personal Creator. By measuring the movement of heavenly bodies on the basis of such natural laws, astronomers were able to determine the existence and location of certain planets before these were ever seen.

Similarly, because of the regularity of what is called the periodic scale governing all chemical elements, certain scientists were able to tell of the existence of specific elements, and to describe their properties, before ever these elements were found. So why should not the scientists, the farmers and everyone else put their confidence and trust, yes, their faith, in the Maker of these natural laws?

As the Bible uses the term “faith,” it might be said to relate to two kinds of things: First, to the certainty of things hoped for, things not seen because of their being in the future. And, secondly, to faith in the existence of spirit beings, who are not visible to the human sight because of their not having material bodies; in other words, faith in God and in his promises. Thus we read at Hebrews 11:1 (New English Bible): “What is faith?

Faith gives substance to our hopes, and makes us certain of realities we do not see.” That is why we are told that Christians must walk by faith and not by sight.—2 Cor. 5:7.
Faith that God exists can be firmly established by contemplating the power and wisdom manifest in visible creation, including its order and harmony. All reasonable persons will agree that every effect has a competent cause. A watch argues for the existence of a watchmaker. So, look where we may in the universe, from the complex eye of an insect to the mighty galaxies in outer space, we come to the conclusion that there simply must be a mighty and wise Maker, or Creator, of these things.

Still the fact remains that a large number of persons do not believe that God exists. And since many of these persons are scientists, some individuals jump to the conclusion that to believe in the existence of God the Creator is unscientific. But not so, as a professor of the University of Pennsylvania once observed. In discussing the credibility of the miracles mentioned in the Bible, he said that a power of God not yet recognized by science could account for these. “Most scientists are not Christians,” he went on to say, “but not because they are scientists. Most businessmen or reporters are not Christians either; in fact, most people are not Christians.”

Pertinent here is a report that appeared some years ago in the New York Journal-American. It stated: “For many years, scientists were generally believed to be atheists. Yet today, . . . when science is almost a way of life, this theory is no longer valid. This week, eight of the nation’s outstanding men of science were asked by the N.Y. Journal-American to give their views on this question: ‘Do scientists believe in God?’ From their answers, one basic concept shows up clearly: Some Divine Power, beyond control of man, has shaped the universe. Most of these scientific men first stated their feelings on this subject years ago. None have since seen any reason to change their views.”

Wernher von Braun, rocket expert, and one of the eight referred to, replied: “Why do I believe in God? Simply stated, the main reason is this: Anything as well ordered and perfectly created as is our earth and universe must have a Maker, a master designer. Anything so orderly, so perfect, so precisely balanced, so majestic as this creation can only be the product of a Divine Idea. There must be a Maker; there can be no other way.”

Another of the eight scientists, Dr. William Swann, a noted authority on cosmic radiation, expressed himself in a like manner: “The man of science likes to separate fact from speculation. Now viewing the universe as a whole, I cannot escape the fact that it is of intelligent design. By this I mean that the universe shows on a magnificent scale the same kind of interrelationship of its working and efficiency of planning as an engineer strives to achieve in his smaller undertakings.”

Similarly, scientist Dr. Warren Weaver, one of America’s foremost mathematicians, once stated in a popular monthly magazine: “Every new discovery of science is a further revelation of the order that God has built into His universe. God gains in dignity and power through manifestations of His reason and order.”

Then there is also the testimony of Sir Isaac Newton, who has been termed “the greatest scientific mind the world has ever seen.” To quote a recently published biography, “Newton’s scrutiny of nature was directed almost exclusively to the knowledge of God” and “science was pursued for what it could teach men about God.” All such testimony, which could be multiplied a thousand times over, is in keeping with the inspired words of the apostle Paul that God’s “invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world‘s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they [who deny God’s existence, by word or action] are inexcusable.”—Rom. 1:20.

TRUE FAITH IN GOD REQUIRES A DIVINE REVELATION
However, let us bear in mind that mere belief that God exists is not enough. That is not the same as having a true and living faith in God himself. For example, the results of a poll published late in 1976 showed that 76 percent of Australians “believe in God.” But do they actually believe in what God says and in what God does, or do they merely believe that he exists? According to the Bible writer James, even wicked angels, demons or devils, believe that God exists—and they shudder. Obviously they do not have faith in God. (Jas. 2:14, 19) True faith in God involves not merely the belief that he exists but also trust and confidence in God as a person. As the Bible puts it: “Without faith it is impossible to please him well, for he that approaches God must believe that he is and [additionally] that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him.” (Heb. 11:6) Faith involves not only the mind but also the heart, yes, the whole man.

Obviously, a sound faith in God requires us to go farther than the study of the so-called “book of Nature.” As much as “nature,” creation, is able to testify to the majesty, wisdom and power of the Creator, it cannot answer such questions as: What is God’s name? Why did he create us, and when? What is the purpose of life? What is our ultimate destiny? What are our duties toward God and toward our fellowman? Why is the world in such a mess? And what does God require of us if we are to survive the impending world disaster foretold in his Word?

Just think: The Creator gave us the power to reason, to wonder, to use our imagination and to ask questions such as these. Surely he would not torment us by leaving us without the answers, would he? Truly God has implanted in our hearts and minds a thirst for knowledge, and certain kinds of knowledge that only he can supply. Does it not make sense to conclude that God would satisfy our thirst for knowledge about these things? After all, he created us with other natural desires—for food and drink, for beauty of sight and sound, and so forth. And has he not provided that we can, with due effort, satisfy these hungers and thirsts? Besides, the Creator provided for all the needs of the brute creation. Does he love his intelligent human creation any less? It is but logical that he would provide us with the answers—by means of a divine revelation. The Bible claims to be such, and as we examine it we find that it does indeed meet the requirements of a divine revelation.

The Bible has well been termed the torch of civilization and of liberty. Such parts of it as the Decalogue or Ten Commandments, the Sermon on the Mount, and its psalms and proverbs, would alone suffice to put it in a class by itself. For example, the Ten Commandments have often been likened to the Code of Hammurabi, as though the Commandments were patterned after that Code. Nothing could be farther from the truth. These Commandments put the emphasis on the worship of God; but the Hammurabi Code, on mere secular matters. And even in the treatment of secular matters there is a great difference. Not only do the Ten Commandments forbid murder, but the rest of the Mosaic law makes the death penalty imperative for willful murder and distinguishes between murder and unintentional manslaying. (Num. 35:9-34) By contrast, in the Code of Hammurabi, as the Encyclopædia Britannica points out, “a strange omission from the code is that of willful murder, and there is uncertainty as to how it was punished or by whom the retribution was inflicted.” (Encyclopædia Britannica, 1971, Vol. 11, page 43) Note also the last of the Ten Commandments, “You shall not covet.” (Ex. 20:17, NE) That law is unique in the annals of jurisprudence. It is a law that gets at the very root of crime, and yet its enforcement depends in large measure on the individual himself!

Logically, the Bible begins with the account of creation. It may be said to have anticipated the desire of Albert Einstein, who once stated: “I want to know how God created this world. . . . I want to know His thoughts.” Though the fact is not generally appreciated, the Bible account of creation is in harmony with the thinking of many scientists today.

In this regard, note the words of one of America’s leading geologists, Wallace Pratt: “If I as a geologist were called upon to explain briefly our modern ideas of the origin of the earth and the development of life on it to a simple, pastoral people, such as the tribes to whom the Book of Genesis was addressed, I could hardly do better than follow rather closely much of the language of the first chapter of Genesis.” And as regards the length of the days of creation mentioned in Genesis, this scientist discerningly asks: “Are we not assured, indeed, that with the Creator, ‘a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day?’” How could the writer of the Genesis account have obtained this information and understanding except by divine inspiration?

More than that, Bible writers show a candor that stamps their accounts as authentic. Thus no one can properly ascribe any ulterior motive to them. Consider what the Bible tells of the mistakes and shortcomings of even great men of faith. It tells about Noah’s getting drunk; about the patriarch Judah’s having relations with one whom he thought to be a temple prostitute; about Moses’ losing his temper; about David’s mistakes, such as his adulterous affair with Bath-sheba, resulting also in the death of her husband; and about the rivalry of the apostles of Jesus. Certainly in thus frankly describing, not only the virtues of these faithful men, but also their failings, Bible writing bears the stamp of honesty and truth.

How true to life is human nature as portrayed in the Bible! There has been very little change in six thousand years. For example, near the start of the Divine Record we come face to face with the human failing of jealousy. The firstborn son of Adam and Eve kills his brother because of jealous rage. Later in history a like jealousy motivates the half brothers of Joseph to get rid of him. King Saul is jealous of David’s successes and popularity to the point of trying to kill him. In its treatment of the realities of life, in these and a multitude of other instances, the Bible record rings true.

Moreover, we might naturally expect that the Bible, as God’s revelation to humankind, would have the widest circulation of any book—and in the most languages—so that it would be available to the greatest number of persons living on earth. And that we find to be the case. In 1975 alone a third of a billion copies of the Bible or parts of it were distributed, and the Bible now is available in whole or in part in upward of 1,575 languages.

The strongest reason, however, for our accepting the Bible’s claim to being the Divine Revelation—which claim it makes repeatedly—is the fulfillment of so many of its prophecies. Literally scores of the details about the birth, public activities and death of Jesus Christ were foretold by the Hebrew prophets. Among these are the place of his birth, facts regarding when he would appear as the Messiah and his public career for three and a half years, how he was received, as well as details of his death and resurrection. And let it be noted that even as faith in God means having faith in his Word, the Bible, so faith in the Bible means having faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior of humankind and the King of God’s kingdom.

[Footnotes]
Gen. 49:10; Isa. 53; Dan. 9:26; Mic. 5:2; Zech. 9:9; 11:12; 13:7.

Shown here is information taken from the Periodic Table of the Elements. Because of the uniformity of matter, scientists were able to tell of the existence of certain specific elements, and to describe their properties, before those elements were ever isolated. Did such uniformity of matter come into existence by accident?
1 Hydrogen 1
2 Helium 2
3 Lithium 2-1
4 Beryllium 2-2
5 Boron 2-3
6 Carbon 2-4
7 Nitrogen 2-5
8 Oxygen 2-6
9 Fluorine 2-7
10 Neon 2-8
11 Sodium 2-8-1
12 Magnesium 2-8-2
13 Aluminum 2-8-3
14 Silicon 2-8-4
15 Phosphorus 2-8-5
16 Sulfur 2-8-6
17 Chlorine 2-8-7
18 Argon 2-8-8
19 Potassium 2-8-8-1
20 Calcium 2-8-8-2
21 Scandium 2-8-9-2
22 Titanium 2-8-10-2
23 Vanadium 2-8-11-2
24 Chromium 2-8-13-1
25 Manganese 2-8-13-2
26 Iron 2-8-14-2
27 Cobalt 2-8-15-2
28 Nickel 2-8-16-2
29 Copper 2-8-18-1
30 Zinc 2-8-18-2
31 Gallium 2-8-18-3
32 Germanium 2-8-18-4
33 Arsenic 2-8-18-5
34 Selenium 2-8-18-6
35 Bromine 2-8-18-7
36 Krypton 2-8-18-8
37 Rubidium 2-8-18-8-1
38 Strontium 2-8-18-8-2
39 Yttrium 2-8-18-9-2
40 Zirconium 2-8-18-10-2
41 Niobium 2-8-18-12-1
42 Molybdenum 2-8-18-13-1
43 Technetium 2-8-18-13-2
44 Ruthenium 2-8-18-15-1
45 Rhodium 2-8-18-16-1
46 Palladium 2-8-18-18-0
47 Silver 2-8-18-18-1
48 Cadmium 2-8-18-18-2
49 Indium 2-8-18-18-3
50 Tin 2-8-18-18-4
51 Antimony 2-8-18-18-5
52 Tellurium 2-8-18-18-6
53 Iodine 2-8-18-18-7
54 Xenon 2-8-18-18-8
55 Cesium 2-8-18-18-8-1
56 Barium 2-8-18-18-8-2
57 Lanthanum 2-8-18-18-9-2
58 Cerium 2-8-18-20-8-2
59 Praseodymium 2-8-18-21-8-2
60 Neodymium 2-8-18-22-8-2
61 Promethium 2-8-18-23-8-2
62 Samarium 2-8-18-24-8-2
63 Europium 2-8-18-25-8-2
64 Gadolinium 2-8-18-25-9-2
65 Terbium 2-8-18-27-8-2
66 Dysprosium 2-8-18-28-8-2
67 Holmium 2-8-18-29-8-2
68 Erbium 2-8-18-30-8-2
69 Thulium 2-8-18-31-8-2
70 Ytterbium 2-8-18-32-8-2
71 Lutetium 2-8-18-32-9-2
72 Hafnium 2-8-18-32-10-2
73 Tantalum 2-8-18-32-11-2
74 Tungsten 2-8-18-32-12-2
75 Rhenium 2-8-18-32-13-2
76 Osmium 2-8-18-32-14-2
77 Iridium 2-8-18-32-15-2
78 Platinum 2-8-18-32-17-1
79 Gold 2-8-18-32-18-1
80 Mercury 2-8-18-32-18-2
81 Thallium 2-8-18-32-18-3
82 Lead 2-8-18-32-18-4
83 Bismuth 2-8-18-32-18-5
84 Polonium 2-8-18-32-18-6
85 Astatine 2-8-18-32-18-7
86 Radon 2-8-18-32-18-8
87 Francium 2-8-18-32-18-8-1
88 Radium 2-8-18-32-18-8-2
89 Actinium 2-8-18-32-18-9-2
90 Thorium 2-8-18-32-18-10-2
91 Protactinium 2-8-18-32-20-9-2
92 Uranium 2-8-18-32-21-9-2
93 Neptunium 2-8-18-32-22-9-2
94 Plutonium 2-8-18-32-24-8-2
95 Americium 2-8-18-32-25-8-2
96 Curium 2-8-18-32-25-9-2
97 Berkelium 2-8-18-32-26-9-2
98 Californium 2-8-18-32-28-8-2
99 Einsteinium 2-8-18-32-29-8-2
100 Fermium 2-8-18-32-30-8-2
101 Mendelevium 2-8-18-32-31-8-2
102 Nobelium 2-8-18-32-32-8-2
103 Lawrencium 2-8-18-32-32-9-2
104 Rutherfordium
105 Hahnium
Atomic number 79
Gold
Number of electrons in each shell, beginning with the shell closest to the nucleus. 2-8-18-32-18-1