Our horse is jerk!?

Question

We recently purchased a horse. He is a 16 hand quarter horse, and reminds me of Donald Duck. Since purchasing him, we have discovered he is a biter. His original Daddy used a strap on him to modify behavior. We try not to smack him, but it seems to be he only has respect for that stupid piece of leather. He knocked my girl friend's daughter clean out of her shoes, and bit her three times. My hubby went to get her shoes at which time he attempted to do the same to him. I got hubby's belt, showed it to the horse, got the shoes, and the horse did not even look at me. He is only three years old and I can not help to think that he is not to old to have this behavior modified. Problem is, we live in Nowhere Arizona, and there are no trainers for at least 300 miles. We have 4 other horses that do not behave in this manner and have no clue where to start. ( Any comments about turning him into dog food can be kept to yourself).

Answer 1

work him in a round pen. if you don't have one, section off a small circle in the corner of the pasture. make it big enough that he can run around it safely and comfortably. this son of a gun needs his butt worked out to remind him who is boss. do it with a halter, without a halter, with a saddle, without a saddle. rearrange things on him so that he will realize that under any circumstance you are boss, not just when he has on a halter, but when he doesn't have one on, not just when he has a saddle on, but when he doesn't, too. get a nice long lunge whip, long enough you can stand in the middle of the pen and whip his butt or follow behind him a little and still reach him. really, you want to follow him around the pen, not just stand right in the middle. pop him in the butt and smooch until he gallops. work him out until his inside ear pricks towards you. once he does this, back off a little. then keep him going. your goal is to make it to where he keeps his attention on you. the moment his attention is off of you whip him. when he licks his lips put the lunge line down beside you and stop moving. hold out your hand and talk to him. make him come to you. when he looks away or steps away, immediately smooch and whip him away to a run. soon he will realize that by listening to you and being near AND nice to you he will get to rest. if he attemps to run you down in the round pen, trying to come at you and bite you, take the handle end of the whip and hit him across the nose and yell "nah-ah! no!" when he goes to bite you smack him on the nose. Many people say a horse will get head shy from this, but it is only when you hit the horse around the eye, above the eye, the ears or inbetween the ears. smacking on the muzzle is fine. get rid of the strap. if that is the only thing he 'respects' then it needs to go. you need to get down and dirty with this horse and be mean back. these type, when you try to be nice and win them over they only get meaner. the moment he does something that is unacceptable yell "Nah-ah! no!" practically growl it and yell it at the same time and strike him harsly on the shoulder. do not let him get away with anything. halter and lead him somewhere to feed him. make him stand perfectly before you let him eat. put the feed in the bucket then walk him away then back to it. when he shoves you jerk the lead and say "no!" if he dances around pull on the lead downwards, don't jerk it, it will make him dance more and say "no!" once he is still and calm, even if it is for 2 seconds, the moment he is calm unclip his lead and let him eat. I've trained my horses to where the moment i say "no" they quit what they are doing and stand still or come to me. I trained a horse for someone, one time and the horse acted just like this. when i started lunging him the 18 hand monster took to trying to run me over. i got a few bruises but i fought back with the whip handle and made him run. It took a few weeks but by the end of it all he was an angel. you just need to keep on him and never ever let him have his way. when you are leading him and you are going to turn right and he knows it and begins to pull that way before you tell him to, turn him in a circle to the left a few times then continue on your way to the right. same way with the left. if you stop and he takes a few steps before stopping, jerk the rope and make him take back the few steps he took. think about every little thing he does. do everything opposite of him. if he is expecting to go forward make him back up, if he expects to turn left, go right, if he expects to turn right, go left. if he backs up, make him step forward. your horse is being a punk and it needs to be fixed before it gets too dangerous. also, is he gelded? if not, you may want to get him gelded. being a stud will provoke bad behavior too.

Answer 2

When one horse bites another, the biter most assuredly gets kicked. Smack the horse on the nose and yell "No!". He'll get the point that you're dominant in the herd, not him. He won't hate you, and he'll walk right back over to you. And he won't get head-shy, he'll soon realize he did something wrong by biting and that's why you popped him. If you're like me, you can't stand hitting an animal...but this is a BIG animal and could get dangerous. It's not good that he's a threat to you, and even worse that he's a threat to a kid.
I don't have a biting problem with my horse, but I watched the lady I bought him from work with her other horses and this worked very well. There have got to be other ways too, but this horse sounds pretty defiant.

And where in AZ? I'm out here in nowhere too ^_^

Answer 3

I like Paint Pony's answer and agree: biting is a sign of disrespect and you can bet other horses wouldn't be gentle about putting him in his place. If he acted like that towards the leader of his herd you can bet he'd get a sound thrashing. You need to show him that you are the leader of the herd. He's a horse, not a human, and only understands physical cues. Being nice and ignoring the behavior will only reinforce it, as it shows him you are not willing to stand up for yourself.

Ultimately, you need to be able to approach him without having to arm yourself; if he already seems to respect you with a certain weapon (belt) then it is time to work away from that. I like the idea of roundpenning; you are still armed with a whip and it is a good exercise to teach respect (listening to commands, moving when you say to, etc). Monty Roberts' first book has a great section about how this exercise builds off cues horses use in the wild, I highly suggest reading it. Use this as a warm up and then work him as you would normally. Any time he gets agressive, slug him in the muzzle. If you happen to be carrying a pail or shovel, don't be afraid to use that. Hitting the muzzle (or whatever part is easiest to reach) for biting isn't going to make him head shy, he's smart enough to make the connection. Don't let anyone around him who is not capable of disciplining him in the same manner, you want him to respect everyone who approaches without testing so you need to be consistent. Unfortunately having little kids around may not be safe for a while.

You don't need a trainer for this behavior yet, you just need to be very assertive so there is no question of who is boss. You may be surprised by how little it takes. Hitting him for biting is not abuse, it's a simple cause and effect rule that he needs to learn.

Answer 4

Hi. Good points here, you have to teach that horse who is boss but I just have to disagree on the hitting him in the face. If he is doing this with aggression, and has done so in the past to a point that someone taught him with a leather strap.... well, more than likely it is a taught manner. FIRST, be very careful if he is aggressive and get HELP from a professional no matter what it takes. Secondly, if he is nipping and seeing if he can get away with it without his torture tool, (strap) grab his upper lip and squeeze every time he does it... not full force or trying to rip his lip off but firmly and twist it just a hair and use that harsh tone and a key word, use the same word everytime. He will learn quickly that he doesn't like that outcome and you will not get a head shy horse from whacking him across the face. He is young and apparently was allowed to behave badly and the person working with him did not have a clue how to change his nipping into a nice, peaceful, respectful colt but instead made a colts play into a game of hit or miss. (that is my bet).

Good luck and BE CAREFUL... horse bites can be very dangerous!

Sincerely,
hhqh01

Answer 5

You've gotten a variety of answers already but I would say if he bites hard smack him hard. His face is not off limits. Yes, there is a chance of becoming headshy, but only if you repeatedly smack him for no reason.

Anyways, don't be afraid to hit him HARD. I can guarantee, if he was with a herd in the wild this behavior wouldn't be tolerated and a kick from another horse would hurt much worse than anything you dish out to him.

I do agree with the 3-5 second thing. If you wait too long to react they don't know what they are being punished for so make sure it's almost an automatic reaction. I personally don't tolerate biting and will smack HARD if bitten. After you smack them rub the spot you smacked to let them know it was a reprimand but you're not trying to abuse them.

Try this horse forum: http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/

It has so much good information and I'm sure you will find something on there that will help you. Hope that helped a bit.

Answer 6

Smack him across the nose. I know it sounds cruel and I would never smack a dog that bites, but that's what you're supposed to do with horses. It will get to the point where all you have to do is raise your hand when it looks like he's ready to nip and he'll stop before he even tries. My mare sometimes nips when she's in heat, so I smack her on the nose. When I first got her, she had a history of being head shy, so after I smacked her nose, she would turn her head away and I'd scratch her behind the ears and move my hands down to prevent her from reverting to shying.

You can get horse muzzles for while you're training him or when kids are around.

Good luck!

Answer 7

Biting is a sign of disrespect. And you can make this stop at any age, so he can be trained out of it. You need to take his head off when he does this. Because right now, he has the upper hand. He sounds like he is spoiled. He was allowed to do this as a baby when it was cute and then the previous owner had to resort to a belt to stop it when he got older and it hurt to get bitten. I know a lot of people are going to get upset about this, but you have to make him understand that hurting you or anyone else is not acceptable. Think about what a mare does when her baby starts to bite her. She does not whisper to him, she disciplines him in a manner that he will remember. Even if it hurts. But the bad behavior stops. I have used this method in the past with success. You can go and get a plastic hollow baseball bat. (We call then a Whiffle Bat). This will cause no damage to him at all besides scaring him to death. Set him up to bite and when he does, POP HIM HARD ACROSS THE NOSE! Several times if need be. The sting and the sound is sometimes enough to make him back off. And when you do this, get in his face and make him think he has opened up the gates of hell and you are a demon come to get him. Most horses that bite are bullies and will back down when confronted. I have a stallion that started down this road and it worked on him. He may think about biting, but I can just say "NO" in a sharp tone and he thinks better of it. And if I pick up the plastic bat just to move it around, he looks around to make sure he is not in trouble. You have to make this horse understand that you, not him, are the boss.

Answer 8

is he nipping or biting if its nipping rub his nose with both hand they don't like this and will eventually stop and if its nipping the worst thing you can do is hit him that makes him think your playing the game if it biting again the worst thing you can do is hit him i mean if you want a horse that hates you then go ahead but if you want a partnership with him the what you can do is when he bites just simpley say no not in a loud voice but gentle but firm with no room for disobedience and if it persists just 1.pop his head up and him back or 2.push and hold his head away from you when he tries this or 3. take away something he likes like if he likes his head being rubbed stop until he stops trying to bite you and when he doesn't bite you reward him or 4. let him know why he cant bite when he bites you say ow and let him see the blood and be mad at him don't hit him or anything but animals know your body language and will know when your mad when he realizes that it hurts you when he bites he will stop please use the no violent suggestions first and only use like 1 very half a day or else it wont have time to take effect and he will get confused

Answer 9

I take it you didn't have the horse vetted nor did you get a bring-back guarantee when you bought this horse. There is a reason why some horses are "such a bargain!"

I also take it you have neither the time nor the desire to work with the horse. If that's the case, then take him back to the auction barn where you bought him.

Now then, if you bought her from a private seller, perhaps there are old laws on the AZ books that provide relief against a "problem" horse, so speak with a lawyer about this.

Otherwise, either work with him or get rid of him.

Personally, I'd cut my losses and sell him - but not as a trustworthy mount.

Answer 10

With a horse biting is a sign of disrespectful. You need to make him look at you like you are the head horse and not him. I would start off by working him out in a round pen. He needs to be worked everyday. The more he gets away with biting the worst he going to get. Most trainers refer to getting their respect as joining up with the horse. Since there is no trainers close by trying getting some DVDs. Or you go to some of the training website like john Lyons and see if he has a trainer in your area. Some of the trainer travel around for TV shows and take problems horses to work with them.

Answer 11

When the subject of biting comes up folks invariably quote the "official" clinician's mantra, "You have three seconds to make the horse think it is going to die and the head is off limits."

I say you have until you have to take a breath to kill it and no part of the horse is off limits. Once you have to take a breath you have stop. You made your point.

Biting is a blatantly aggressive action. If bitten, I retaliate immediately, using all the noise and force I can muster. I will do everything in my power to convince the horse he has committed a grave error and is on the verge of dying.

Once its actions and body language tell me, "Hey man, it was just a joke, my apologies," I forget it and it's business as usual again.

...Marv Walker - Dealing with Horse to Human Aggression