Can anyone show Biblical proof of the concept of the Trinity besides the one verse Joh 10:30?

Question

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

This verse does not prove the concept of the Trinity. If that was the case then a married couple would be a duality based on these verses:

(Mar 10:6) But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
(Mar 10:7) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
(Mar 10:8) And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

I'm a Bible researcher and theologian. I study the Bible (but mostly the original Hebrew and Greek scriptures) and based on my research I have a completely different theory. I do not subscribe to the concept.of the Trinity but, being open minded, I'm willing to hear other people's thoughts. If you can't quote scripture, please don't bother answering since nothing but scripture will convince me. Thanks and may God bless

Let me rephrase what I wrote in "additional details". If you're trying to prove the concept, only bother answering if you have scripture to back it up. Those that don't subcribe to the theory don't need to use scripture.

Answer 1

Arianism VS. Trinitarianism

1JOHN 4:1 = "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because MANY FALSE PROPHETS are gone out into the world."
(In reference to the crowd = Matt.7:13; 24:24; some departing from the faith = Acts 20:29-30)false prophets are gone out into the world."

PROVERBS 28:11 = "The rich man is wise in his own conceit; but the poor that hath understanding searcheth him out."
{conceit = Prov.26:5; Rom.11:25; 12:16}
(In reference to Heb.5:14= "knowing good and evil"; 1Thess.5:21= "prove all things")

The Orthodox definition of the trinity is defined as: "A three-fold personality existing in one divine being or substance; the union in one God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three infinite co-equal, co-eternal persons as; one God in three persons."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity (note: in this source as other sources: it tells you 1John 5:7 wasn't in any of the inspired Greek manuscripts)
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=203

The Trinity Doctrine came from paganism.
(Pagan means no religious beliefs; in the 1984 New Concise Webster's Dictionary--Pagan defined : "A heathen; one having no religious beliefs")
http://www.thunderministries.com/Beast/Apostasy.html
http://www.sabbatarian.com/Paganism/HecateTrinity.html
http://www.cornerstone1.org/trinity1.htm
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/html/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=140
http://mikeblume.com/pagantr.htm

Tertullian (ca.150-225) was the first writer to use the term "trinity" (New Theological Dictionary, p. 1,054).
If we look in the late second and early third centuries; we see the Catholic theologian names Tertullian and Origen keep coming up.
The term trinity was not "revealed" until more than 150 years after Jesus Christ's crucifixion and resurrection.
If this teaching were true; why was it revealed later? Did Christ's disciples know about this doctrine; if they did; why didn't they explain it?
If we search the scriptures; we see the disciples taught a very different explanation of God.
http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/tw-mag.cgi?category=Magazine28&item=1104232928

(KJV BIBLE)There are 3 that protestants claim about the trinity; they're JOHN 14 & 15 and 1JOHN 5:7. To start out 1JOHN 5:7 was never in any of the inspired Greek manuscripts; so this knocks out one. As for John 14 & 15; the Greek word for "helper" is paracletos; one who helps inwhich points to the Holy Spirit. In Greek, the word "He" is neuter such as "hand" is feminine whether it is a woman's hand or male's hand. As for the word "paracletos" it is masculine and always require a masculine pronoun. This however doesn't prove personhood as you've noticed.
But as you've noticed, these texts don't prove Jesus is God or the Holy Spirit.
I don't believe in the TRINITY! The Bible texts that I'm going to mention contradict the Trinity teaching.
MATT.12:32 "AND WHOSOEVER SPEAKETH A WORD AGAINST THE SON OF MAN, IT SHALL BE FORGIVEN HIM: BUT WHOSOEVER SPEAKETH AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST, IT SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN HIM, NEITHER IN THIS WORLD, NEITHER IN THE WORLD TO COME."
JOHN 14:28 "IF YE LOVED ME, YE WOULD REJOICE, BECAUSE I SAID , I GO UNTO THE FATHER: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I."
1COR.11:3 "BUT I WOULD HAVE YOU KNOW THAT THE HEAD OF EVERY MAN IS CHRIST; & THE HEAD OF THE WOMAN IS THE MAN; AND THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD."
LUKE 18:19 "AND JESUS SAID UNTO HIM, WHY CALLEST THOU ME GOOD? NONE IS GOOD, SAVE ONE, THAT IS, GOD."
****SEVERAL OTHER TEXTS SAY THERE'S ONLY TWO PERSONS:
1COR.1:3; 8:6; 1TIM.1:2; 2:5; GAL.1:3; PHILIPP.1:2; ROM.1:7; 2COR.1:2-3; 1THESS.1:1; 2THESS.1:2; 2TIM.1:2; PHILEMON 1:3; 1PETER 1:3; 2PETER 1:2; 1JOHN 1:3; 2JOHN 1:3.

Now touching on the HOLY SPIRIT; the Holy Spirit is a power(Luke 1:35= "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the "Son of God.") where God and Jesus make their presence known in the hearts and minds of believers(1John 3:24 = "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."). The believers of god and Jesus will have this love poured on them (Rom.5:5 = "And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given to us.") It will teach them understanding and wisdom of God's Word (John 14:16,17,20,23,26 = "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. At that day ye shall know that I am in the Father, and ye in me, and I in you. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.") Jesus had the Holy Spirit in him when he made the lame walk and the deaf to hear and etc.(Luke 5:15-17) God works in our minds to give us stength to overcome (Genesis 6:3 = "And the Lord said, my Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.") Other texts are: John 7:38-39; Rom.8:11,13-14,16 and Psalm 104:30.
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Another text that Trinitarians use to say Jesus is the same being as God is John 10:30.
Well many confuse this text in John 10:30 to say Jesus and God are one and the same person; but this text doesn't mean that.
Go back to verse 29; doesn't it say that Jesus's Father is greater than him. In fact what does Jesus/Bible tell us in these texts; doesn't it say that Jesus and God are seperate people?

JOHN 14:28 = "YE HAVE HEARD HOW I SAID UNTO YOU, I GO AWAY, AND COME AGAIN UNTO YOU. IF YE LOVED ME, YE WOULD REJOICE, BECAUSE I SAID, I GO UNTO THE FATHER: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I."

JOHN 20:17 = "JESUS SAID UNTO HER, TOUCH ME NOT; FOR I AM NOT ASCENDED TO MY FATHER: BUT GO TO MY BRETHREN, AND SAY TO THEM, I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER, AND YOUR FATHER; AND TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD."

1COR.11:3 "BUT I WOULD HAVE YOU KNOW THAT THE HEAD OF EVERY MAN IS CHRIST; & THE HEAD OF THE WOMAN IS THE MAN; AND THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD."

LUKE 18:19 "AND JESUS SAID UNTO HIM, WHY CALLEST THOU ME GOOD? NONE IS GOOD, SAVE ONE, THAT IS, GOD."

MATT.19:17 = "AND HE SAID UNTO HIM, WHY CALLEST THOU ME GOOD? THERE IS NONE GOOD BUT ONE, THAT IS, GOD: BUT IF THOU WILT ENTER INTO LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS."

****SEVERAL OTHER TEXTS SAY THERE'S ONLY TWO PERSONS:
1COR.1:3; 8:6; 1TIM.1:2; 2:5; GAL.1:3; PHILIPP.1:2; ROM.1:7; 2COR.1:2-3; 1THESS.1:1; 2THESS.1:2; 2TIM.1:2; PHILEMON 1:3; 1PETER 1:3; 2PETER 1:2; 1JOHN 1:3; 2JOHN 1:3.

So what does John 10:30 really means--when it says "I and my Father are one?" Well let's go further down to John 10:38. Doesn't it tell us that God and Jesus are alike and similar in actions, features, and etc? Take a Father with his son or a Mother with her daughter; do they have characteristics like you; but does that mean they're you? No of course not; they're seperate, but are alike in different ways.

JOHN 10:38 = "BUT IF I DO, THOUGH YE BELIEVE NOT ME, BELIEVE THE WORKS: THAT YE MAY KNOW, AND BELIEVE, THAT THE FATHER IS IN ME, AND I IN HIM."

JOHN 5:19-20 = "THEN, ANSWERED JESUS AND SAID UNTO THEM, VERILY, VERILY, I SAY UNTO YOU, THE SON CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF, BUT WHAT HE SEETH THE FATHER DO: FOR WHAT THINGS SOEVER HE DOETH, THESE ALSO DOETH THE SON LIKEWISE. FOR THE FATHER LOVETH THE SON, AND SHEWETH HIM ALL THINGS THAT HIMSELF DOETH: AND HE WILL SHEW HIM GREATER WORKS THAN THESE, THAT YE MAY MARVEL."

JOHN 17:21-22 = "THAT THEY ALL MAY BE ONE; AS THOU, FATHER, ART IN ME, AND I IN THEE, THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE ONE IN US: THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE THAT THOU HAS SENT ME. AND THE GLORY WHICH THOU GAVEST ME I HAVE GIVEN THEM; THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE."

JOHN 14:10-11 = "BELIEVEST THOU NOT THAT I AM IN THE FATHER, AND THE FATHER IN ME? THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU I SPEAK OF NOT MYSELF: BUT THE FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS. BELIEVE ME THAT I AM IN THE FATHER, AND THE FATHER IN ME: OR ELSE BELIEVE ME FOR THE VERY WORKS' SAKE."

JOHN 5:36 = "BUT I HAVE A GREATER WITNESS THAN THAT OF JOHN: FOR THE WORKS WHICH THE FATHER HATH GIVEN ME TO FINISH, THE SAME WORKS THAT I DO, BEAR WITNESS OF ME, THAT THE FATHER HATH SENT ME."

JOHN 10:25 = "JESUS ANSWERED THEM, I TOLD YOU, AND YOU BELIEVED NOT: THE WORKS THAT I DO IN MY FATHER'S NAME, THEY BEAR WITNESS OF ME."

Also many others such as:
JOHN 8:28,42,49-50,54; 5:19-20,26-27,30; 6:38,57
MATT.20:23

Jesus Christ came here on earth to show people who God is by his actions and features. So if we knew Jesus in our heart; we would know God because Jesus showed us when he was on earth. (JOHN 17:3)
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Is Jesus God?
The Answer is definately "NO".

Is Jesus God?
Jesus Christ is not God {he was figuratively God(Logos) in the Old Testament; the spokesperson for God} = John 1:1. So does the Bible say Jesus is God; no it says that Jesus is the son of God = 1John 4:15.
References of the devil or demons calling Jesus Son of God:
Matthew 4:3
Matthew 4:6,
Matthew 8:29
Mark 3:11
Luke 4:3
Luke 4:9
Luke 4:41

References to humans calling Jesus Son of God:
Matthew 14:33
Matthew 27:54
Mark 1:1
Mark 15:39
John 1:34
John 1:49
John 11:27
John 20:31
Acts 9:20
Romans 1:4
2 Corinthians 1:19
Galatians 2:20
Hebrews 4:14
Hebrews 6:6
Hebrews 7:3
Hebrews 10:29
1 John 3:8
1 John 4:15
1 John 5:1
1 John 5:5
1 John 5:10
1 John 5:13
1 John 5:20
Matthew 14:33
Revelation 2:18

Jesus referring to himself as the Son of God:
John 3:18
John 5:25
John 10:36
John 11:4
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To understand this better if God are all three persons; then that would deny Jesus as the son of God; wouldn't it? Because you're saying that God is all 3 and the same; aren't you?
Most people say Jesus is God; how can this be? What happened to Jesus then, if Jesus is God or what happened to God if Jesus is God?
1John 2:22-24.

Hosea 11:9 = "...: for I am God and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter in the city."
Numbers 23:19 = "God is not a man; that he should lie: neither the son of man, that he should repent..."
Acts 2:22 = "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you..."

Now from these two texts; it tells us there's two persons: one is God and one is Jesus the son of God; a man approved of God. Now as we have determined Jesus can't be God.


Elohim contains the plural ending -im ("gods"). See: Exodus 12:12; Psalm 97:7.
(Names of God in the Old Testament:, The Anchor bible Dictionary, vol. 4, p.1006).
"There is irrefutable proof that this plural noun (Elohim) is to be understood as conveying, not the sense of a dual or a triune God, but of a "God Family" with more than one member."
See more in:
http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&item=1104093303

The Bible contradicts the Trinity teaching over and over. Now if Jesus was a trinity (which is unbiblical), that would mean he didn't come fully in the flesh = 1John 4:3.
How can Jesus be God and talk to himself? Also if Jesus was God on the earth; that would mean he was a spirit; we know this wasn't true because of 1John 4:2-3 and 2Jn.1:7.
http://family.webshots.com/photo/1472651266051497771QlfGdY
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If you look in the encyclopedia under the Roman Catholic Church; you will see they wiped out three arian tribes.
Here are some sites to look at:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=PCTA%2CPCTA%3A2006-34%2CPCTA%3Aen&q=three+arian+tribes+wiped+out+by+the+Catholic+Church&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=PCTA,PCTA:2006-34,PCTA:en&q=heruli%2c+vandals%2c+ostrogoths+wiped+out+by+the+Catholic+Church

WHO ARE THESE 10 HORNS?
**Now the 10 horns represents kings or kingdoms and 1 comes up among the them and destroys (DANIEL 7:8,23,24)three.

3 Successive Horns uprooted (babarians followers of Arianism destroyed on papal authority--this period called the "transition age" in Philip Myers' Ancient History, p.571)
AND THEN A LITTLE HORN COMES UPON THE SCENE THAT HAS DESTROYED THE HERULI (under Odoacer) 476-493AD, KINGDOM OF THE VANDALS 429-533AD AND KINGDOM OF THE OSTROGOTHS 493-554AD.

NOW DETERMINING WHO THE HORN IS: A.C. FLICK, THE RISE OF THE MEDIAEVAL CHURCH. (PUTNAM'S 1909 ED.)PP.148-149.
*FROM THE CLUES IN THE BIBLE; WE KNOW IT'S THE ROMAN EMPIRE (REV.17:4; COMPARE TO MATT.27:28 AND MARK 15:17,20
Rev.17:4 = "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colur,..."
Matt.27:28 = "And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe."
Mark 15:16,17 = "And the soldiers led him away into the hall, called Praetorium; and they called together the whole band. And they clothed him with purple, and plaited a crown of thorns, and put it upon his head."
Mark 15:20 = "And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple, and plaited a crown of thorns, and put it upon his head."

Little horn among the 10 (Daniel 7:8,20-22,24-27)
2-Horned Lamb-Like Beast from earth and image(Rev.13:11-18)
Royally Clad Harlot named Mystery, Babylon the Great (Rev.17:1-6)
Symbolic meaning = False Christian Religion Ruling the Beast
Historical Fulfillment = Roman Catholic Church under the Pope (in the image of the Roman civil government)

http://www.lcg.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&item=1104414543
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Not all christians believe in trinitarianism.
(Note: some have different views of non-trinitarianism as noted in these sites below; these are unitarians point of view. Unitarians don't believe Jesus was in the beginning as the Bible says)
http://www.mindspring.com/~anthonybuzzard/trinity.htm
http://anthonybuzzard.home.mindspring.com/whoisjesus.htm#21

In fact here are some that don't believe in the trinity:
Living Church of God (believes there is 1 God: the father and his son Jesus Christ in the "God Family" and that many members can be in this "God Family" as the Bible says)
http://www.lcg.org/search/search.php?query=trinity&%24results_per_page=10&search=1
http://www.lcg.org/search/search.php?query=god%27s+church+through+the+ages&type=and&results=10&search=1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Church_of_God
Churches of God
http://www.giveshare.org/churchhistory/sda/064.sda.html
Jehovah Witnesses
http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_04.htm
Unitarians (Unitarians don't believe Jesus was in the beginning as the Bible says)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Christianity
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=113
United Pentecostals (they believe in oneness)
http://experts.about.com/q/Pentecostals-2256/Trinity-1.htm
http://www.cephasministry.com/index_pentecostals.html

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Reference sources:
What is God really like?
http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/tw-mag.cgi?category=Magazine28&item=1104232928
The Real God.
http://www.lcg.org/cgi-bin/tw/magazine/tw-mag.cgi?category=Magazine3&item=1103832467
Is God really a TRINITY?
http://lcg.org/search/search.php?query=IS+THERE+A+TRINITY&%24results_per_page=10&search=1
God's Church through the Ages (see the Trinity)
http://www.lcg.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&item=1104363708
Your Ultimate Destiny
http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&item=1104093303
The Beast of Revelation
http://www.lcg.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&item=1104414543

Answer 2

The first thing i'll tell you is that no one can answer you in a satisfactory manner. However I've learned theat a good INTERLINEAR Bible HEBREW, GREEK ENGLISH w/the nkjv will show what is written in the original language. NOW most people will use the thme honored verses so I want you to read the first chp. of HEBREWS then John 17 Let IT show you the oneness thet the SON had with the FATHER, then Gen 2:18-25 and you may see God"s position on oneness The trinity is the first attempt by man to explain the oneness of the FATHER,SON&HOLY GHOST FORMED IN325 AD,388 AD I think, (nicean creed on) NOW ISIAH 9:6-7 is the first prophisy V6For unto us a Child is born Unto us a Son is given; And the government shall be on his shoulder.And His naie WILL be called Wonderful, counselor Mighty God. (Judg 13:18 Titus2:13 NKJV) next HEBREWS the first chptr. Heb.2:1-18 10:5-15 and so much more that I am learning about our Saviour To try and define God is foolishness for us. The Church has but in light of the written word of God they really has come up lacking. Please prayerfully study what is whitten about the FATHER,SON &HOLY SPIRIT ask the Lord for the understanding you seek and God WILL give it to you as time passes Trust HIM

Answer 3

To even hope to prove the trinity, you need three persons, right? How many persons do you see in John 10:30? Count them. Jssus--1. The Father--1. 1+1=2. So how can you use this verse to prove a trinity when 3 persons are not even mentioned?

shaolt2002 above, mentioned Isa. 9:6, where Jesus is called Mighty God. Again, where is there a trinity? Nowhere!

i_am_an_on_line_evange above use Matt. 28:19 to prove the trinity. But does it? Where in that verse does it say that the three are all God and that they are all co-equal and co-eternal and that they all combine to make one God? IT DOESN'T!! None of his other Bible scriptures prove the trinity either.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia makes this statement regarding the origin of the Trinity:

“There is the recognition on the part of exegetes and Biblical theologians, including a constantly growing number of Roman Catholics, that one should not speak of Trinitarianism in the New Testament without serious qualification. There is also the closely parallel recognition on the part of historians of dogma and systematic theologians that when one does speak of an unqualified Trinitarianism, one has moved from the period of Christian origins to, say, the last quadrant of the 4th century. It was only then that what might be called the definitive Trinitarian dogma ‘one God in three Persons’ became thoroughly assimilated into Christian life and thought. . . .

“The formula itself does not reflect the immediate consciousness of the period of origins; it was the product of 3 centuries of doctrinal development.”

The trinty is a falsehood that has deceived many.

Answer 4

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

One God; creator and sustainer of all things,
without beginning or ending, existing co-equally and co-eternally as
a trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Genesis 1v1; Matthew
3v16-17, 28v19; John 1v1-3; Acts 17v24; 1 John 5v7.

God has a Soul-God The Father----God has a Body-The Lord Jesus
Christ----God has a Spirit----The Holy Spirit (from Body, Soul &
Spirit by Dr. Peter S. Ruckman)

In His Service,

Rev. Calvin C. White, Director,
Mountains of Grace World Outreach Center
P.O. Box 681410
Ft. Payne, AL 35968
Phone: [phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]
Website: http://www.ourchurch.com/member/m/mtnsofgrace/
E-mail Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mountainsofgraceministries/,
Profile: http://profiles.yahoo.com/I_am_an_on_line_evangelist

Mountains Of Grace Radio Church every Saturday at 4:45pm and Sunday afternoon at 3:30pm (central time-U.S.). On WJIE International shortwave radio, frequency 7.490. Listen on line at, http://www.wjiesw.com/listen.htm

Answer 5

You will not likely find what your are after all in one short section of text. In Genesis, God said, Let us make man in our image. Several references Jesus talks about His Father in heaven. He also tells the disciples (& us) that He (Jesus ) was leaving &sending the Spirit to us. Many verses tell us about the Holy Spirt with a difference from the Father & Jesus the Son (such as in Acts). You will not find the work "trinity" in scripture, but it is a word often used to help us try to understand the one God, but in 3 persons.

Answer 6

THE HOLY BIBLE SAYS,The Trinity of God
M't:3:16: And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
M't:3:17: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Answer 7

It is not stated in one verse by its self.
It is the combination of several.
"GOD"the father.
"Jesus" the son.
"The spirit of the Father" this is the "Holy Ghost."
The idea of Trinity is used in prayer.
We pray through Jesus to GOD who uses the power of his spirit, "The Holy Ghost" to answer the prayer.

Answer 8

"Mighty God" Isaiah 9:6

Answer 9

Forget that verse it proves nothing. In the same chapter it says “let them be one as we are one”, clearly it’s about unity, nothing more. Christians like to take things “out of context”.

Answer 10

Its not a biblical concept, its a pagan one introduced by the church in order to gain converts.

Answer 11

God and Jesus, on to each other? Ewww...