If you can watch this video and honestly say it's propaganda...?

Question

then tell the rest of us who believe these very people who experienced it first hand why. Please don't give sarcastic off the cuff remarks that have no weight. Please do not counter without first providing at least a credible point of view. I will not accept any opinion that doesn't acknowledge the legitimacy of the video or simply responds with a counter (not to mention the usual blathering idiots). If you can give me reasons to suspect something other than this administrations use of corrupt tactics and failed policies, I will consider it. Please, no religious excerpts, diatribes, or exhaustive dissertations. Use links that directly oppose (or further support) the information in this video to shorten your response (5-7 paragraphs is fine if you need it). You have 3 days. Here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cJlJudDtVE

Thanks to Pat637 for providing the link.

Neeno, nice reply. However I am only addressing this one issue. I am aware there are many other aspects to consider (as a vet also) but it is impossible to cover it all here. I am not looking for support but rather rational opposition, which you have somewhat provided.

Answer 1

Yes I watched the video, and much is true. The cost plus contracts have been an issue since the early 90's. But let's remember, we are now paying the price for the 'peace dividend' when the military was reduced, most of it, the logistical capabilities that are not needed during 'peace', with the thought that these would be contracted out on an 'as needed' basis. This was the major shift in the military that started after the liberation of Kuwait in the early 90's to save yearly costs. So you cannot specifically blame the current administration for this, onus really falls squarely on the previous administration for those decisions.

I have been in the military (1982-2006) and in Iraq (2004-2005), I have witnessed first hand the shift to contracting services that took place in the 90's. I also experienced working with the contractors in Iraq. While some of what was in the video is correct , some I cannot comment on because I did not experience it, I can say that some is also incorrect. We did our own laundry even though the service was available, we had our personnel maintain the routine things ( iternet, telephone access and such) but contractors took care of others that freed many Marines allowing them to do what needed to be done, patrols, react, ecp, vcp, among other missions.
From the text of your question "If you can give me reasons to suspect something other than this administrations use of corrupt tactics and failed policies", I can tell there will be nothing that will change your opinion, and that is not my intent. I am just trying to show that there is far more to it that the video shows and that you cannot fully blame the current administration and ignore what the previous one did to change how we logistically supply and support our forces. We also must remember that people and corporations have made money off of war since wars have been fought.
I expect to probably get all thumbs down on this because I do not fully support your position, but I hope that maybe we all can acknowledge the fact that these issues go far beyond the current administration and that to narrowly assign the blame for these issues would be naive.

Answer 2

Most of the jobs in the video have been out sourced to civilian contractors for almost 12 to 13 years. And the reason there are more now is to put more soldiers on duty where there suppose to be. The Specialist whining on the tape probably is better off not being in the military because his attitude will get himself or his battle buddy killed. This has been an attempt to stave off a draft. I'll give you cooks as an example the Army got rid of that MOS in the late eighties and civilians have been cooking ever since, this and a lot of other things are not not new because of Iraq, those who say so do not have there facts straight.

Answer 3

Mr Greenwald is a prolific producer of documentaries. Several he has made have been directly against George Bush and the administration. Therefore, I would place very little confidence in this documentary showing a true representation of the effectiveness of using contractor labor in Iraq. Certainly, there are instances where bad policy or decisions are being made, and he may have captured accurate reports of some of those.

I don't believe Mr. Greenwald has the resources and contacts to perform a true audit of the value of any contractor in Iraq, so he just grabs some low-hanging fruit off the edges and throws them where he chooses.

So, if he wants to make a real difference, then instead of producing a documentary showing several conversations that support his premise, he should conduct a study using sound methods to truly establish whether the government is being served well by its contractors or being taken to the cleaners. (In that case, I guess that would be another $100 charge from Halliburton)

Answer 4

what this video shows to me is people profiteering on war (it has always happened!) things is today you have "youtube" and the Internet to expose it.

as for the war, to judge it by this video alone is narrow minded, since there are many many...many more variables about the war to judge than just a video...! ....if you want to be fair!

I criticize the administration hard for doing the Iraq venture with not enough troops and a piss poor planning of the afterwards... the occupation!, one of the biggest disaster of the last 30 years.

as for the war, and the "big picture" intent (a democratic Iraq), I think it was noble attempt, but the way they when about doing it has been horribly wrong!

when I saw the way they prepared for it I thought "oh crap...", since in 91 we had over 650,000 guys over there, and this time barely half that, about 200,000, so it was clear to me this was getting off on the wrong foot. (I was there in 91), not enough guys to do the job right, specially afterwards in the occupation!

now, if you want a more complete assessment, wait for another 10 years, when "passions" on both sides of the political factor have died down, and and a more objective look will have been done, but I can guarantee you the problem of "not enough troops" will be among the chief causes for the mess in that report.

just my thoughts, from a vet.

Note to posting by "Bobby G": it was Eisenhower the one that said "Beware of the miliatry industrial complex", not Roosevelt!

Answer 5

Thank you Wood 80 for an 'off the cuff remark with no weight'.

You need not have feared such reactions though, because the war supporters run a mile from these sorts of questions... they prefer to put up scarecrows about 'liberals who want us to lose' than actually address the real and difficult questions about the profits made by the very people who took America to war.

It took Americans a while to wake up, but now they have, and are. People like this (Halliburton/CACI managers) should be in jail, as they would be in most systems, but they'll slink away with their millions of dollars, and the American people will be left to wear the ignominity and defeat.

In ten years, NOBODY will think this war was a good idea, NOBODY will speak in its defence. It will be looked at just the way we look at Germany in the 1930s.

Answer 6

From first hand experience, yes. A bunch of it is true because I witnessed it first hand. Civilian contractors doing the jobs military personnel had been trained to do and getting paid more to do it. Hell, even I thought about going back to do the same job I did for three times they pay with the same tax benefits without having to wear the uniform, but thought better of it when they told me that I could not bring my own personal weapon with me to protect myself. That I would have to make sure I was around an Army Soldier or Marine with a weapon if I wanted that kind of protection. Roosevelt was right, beware the industrial military complex.

Answer 7

The media will continually %. particular spins on particular subjects. the suited ingredient i could desire to signify is for average muslim peeps to be plugged into their community & to be sparkling. lack of expertise ends up in concern which leads to violence. once I lived interior the undertaking there have been some muslim families. one that appeared to return from Africa, yet another from someplace interior the Balkans (i can not undergo in thoughts, yet they pronounced, it is years in the past thoughts you,) and a third relatives from the midsection East. Oddly, they appeared to stay away from one yet another. The relatives from the Balkans in contact themselves contained regionally & with the neighbours & have been nicely cherished. The relatives from the midsection East had a 5 mattress room unit & had many generations residing there & saved very plenty to themselves. The third relatives, the little ones socialized with all the different teenagers, however the mummy and dad spoke little English & continually regarded afraid. wager what? The hearsay mill became continually unkind approximately people who saved completely to themselves & now and returned on the topic of the relatives who's teenagers socialized. This tells me get entangled which includes your neighbours. BBQ....have coffee....enable them to determine you're extremely human beings.

Answer 8

This isn't new!

Bush has made 500 new millionaires just on blood money from Iraq!

It is how the rich steal for the poor.

That is why Bush wants a blank check. None of the no-bid contract companies are made to submit anything but a bill, and that is unconstitutional!

Welfare for the rich, and they sure live a lot differently than the poor, but they still denigrate those who are the Poor recipients, and never look at themselves as sucking from the government teat! Also, they are the biggest welfare frauds!

Answer 9

Of course people are making money off of Iraq!!! I know that I am!!!! It is something that has been going on for thousands of years, Every war that has ever been fought on the face of the earth has had people making money off of it. It is just that today you have T.V. and you-tube,the Internet and tons of other media outlets so that you can see the profiteering going on. And of course it's propaganda, that's another thing that has been going on for thousands of years.

Answer 10

We saw the same thing right after Katrina hit New Orleans with the "relief" efforts there. Why should it surprise anyone that this kind of thing goes on, when the current V.P. has such close ties to one of the biggest offending parties?