Does Mark 9:32 make any sense, in light of Isaiah 53?

Question

The disciples therein said that they did not understand what Jesus was talking about when he said how he will be murdered. But certainly the disciples were familiar with Isaiah 53, so the fact that the Messiah would be killed should have been obvious to them. Why were they confused and unable to understand this fact, which is clearly stated in scripture, when Jesus mentioned it to them?

If they were not scholars but fishermen (such that they weren't even familiar with the scripture- which is the whole source for the concept of the Messiah), and did not fully believe that he was the Messiah, and if they had misconceived notions about the identity and purpose of the Messiah, then how can we believe in him based on their testimony?

Some of you have said that Jesus himself was the original source of this interpretation/he reinterpreted this section/interpreted it differently than historically the prophecy had always been understood since Isaiah had revelaed it. So if the scripture itself cannot be understood correctly as refererring to Jesus without Jesus himself comming and explaining it as such, then how can the scripture even bear testimony to Jesus?

Regarding Theophilius' answer- the disciples new that Jesus was the Messiah. The disciples should have known that the Messiah will die based on Isaiah 53 (assuming that this the original meaning of the prophecy as Isaiah had tuaght it to the Jewish). So, if the disciples knew that Jesus is Messiah, and if the disciples knew that Messiah must die, then why were they shocked and in disbelief when finding out that Jesus would die. THis is my question.

Answer 1

You have to realize that the scripture pointed to the Messiah, who the Jews were still waiting for, and Jesus just informed them that He was the Messiah.

How were the Jews to know that Jesus was the Messiah from Isaiah 53?

grace2u

Answer 2

I think that most Jews then, as now, assumed that the Messiah would be a king like David who would set up an Earthly kingdom and defeat all of Israel's enemies. It was inconceivable that God would allow his anointed to be killed, because this would be defeat to them.

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Most people cannot accept an interpretation of the Bible that contradicts what they want to hear. And since most of the disciples were illiterate, then they couldn't read the scriptures for themselves and decide what it meant. They would have relied on the Rabbis to tell them what to believe.

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" If they were not scholars but fishermen (such that they weren't even familiar with the scripture- which is the whole source for the concept of the Messiah), and did not fully believe that he was the Messiah, and if they had misconceived notions about the identity and purpose of the Messiah, then how can we believe in him based on their testimony?"

I'm sorry, are you suggesting that what the disciples said about what they SAW and HEARD with their own eyes and ears is unbelievable simply because they were illiterate? That makes no sense. They know that they saw Jesus walk on water, and they know that they saw Jesus rise from the dead, even if they were not scholars and couldn't read Isaiah.

In response to your second additional remark, Jesus' interpretation of Isaiah 53 seems to be literal, and to me it makes the most sense. If you accept the common Jewish interpretation of Isaiah 53, it seems unnatural and forced. I choose to believe the interpretation that seems to be the most natural and simple reading of the text, and I think that Jesus found it, even if it was not clear to his fellow scholars. Besides, Paul & Jesus said that the Bible is confusing to the natural sinful man unless the Holy Spirit Helps you to understand it, so I suppose that Jesus was correct in saying that it was the will of God that the truth would be hidden to the ones who were wise in their own eyes, and instead be "revealed unto babes" who were humble enough to listen.

Answer 3

The normal interpretation of Isaiah 53 at the time of Jesus (and still today among most Jews) is that the "suffering servant" referred to in Isaiah 53 is the nation Israel, not the Messiah. So unless Jesus was to specifically re-teach them, they would probably not have made that connection.
Note that in Luke 22:37, he specifically quotes Isaiah 53 as referring to himself just days before his death. And Luke 24:45-47 Jesus continues to show two of the disciples exactly where in the Old Testament his death and resurrection were prophecied.

They disciples just had not understood it yet in Mark 9.

Answer 4

The deciples weren't the BRIGHTEST people

they may have read the Old script but may not

have understood it either

They were just bad as the Jewish Pharacees who

thought Jesus meant Kingdom was of the earth

So it's that simple read Matt 15:8-17;Mk 7:14-20

Answer 5

Peace be with you. Jesus was trying to relay to them the fact that he had come to fulfill all prophecies that were made before John the Baptist.

But because of their preconceptions based upon false teaching, they wanted Jesus to be King and destroy their enemies. Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world", you are to love your enemies, turn the other cheek, lay down your life, and do not Lie about anything.

We do the same thing. Many today, reason with themselves that Isaiah 53: vs Mark 9:32 is the message that Jesus brought to us, it is not.

Jesus said "Repent and Believe the Gospel"
Jesus said you must be born-again, to be born-again is to forget everything you ever knew or thought you knew about God and His Commandments, and learn them from God'sTrue Bread from heaven, Jesus Christ.
Moses gave you not that bread from heaven.

Answer 6

Why does it not make sense? Were the disciples not human? Although, it did prophecy in the scriptures, can you put yourself in their situation? As much faith as we Christians have and as much reading of the bible as some of us do, do we still not question, do we still not get confused, does our faith still not waiver at times? Sure it does, because we are merely human. In the bible it says:

As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts. --Isaiah 55:9

Do you see what that says? His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. As much knowledge that we have in 2007 we still cannot understand God's mind.
I am sure that it was unfathomable to the disciples that their leader would be killed. I think that they probably didn't want to think about it happening either. There was probably some fear there. Remember Jesus told Peter that he was going to deny Him three times and Peter told Him surely I would not deny you Lord. When the time came did he think "oh, Jesus said that I would deny Him, so I am not going to", or anything to that effect? No, he DENIED Him, just like Jesus said he would.

Do you see what I am getting at? They were human. They were humans that walked with Jesus and certainly great human beings, but they were still humans with human tendencies.

Answer 7

As with life today - often times it is only after something occurs that we remember the truths revealed to us. We don't want to believe some things because they are too painful or we are too "selfish" to accept it or we are unable to see the bigger picture.

After Christ was buried and risen - there are many references to the disciples "understanding" how the scriptures revealed Jesus and how His life upheld the scriptures.

Answer 8

We have people today that still does not understand that Christ died for them. the Muslims faith teaches Christ was a mere prophet and id not die. the Jews did not recognize Christ as the Son of God or Messiah and totally misunderstood the prophesy... Christ did explain to people he would be the Messiah who would fulfill Isiah 53.

Jesus himself interprets this passage as referring to him. Jesus said: "For I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled in me, ‘And he was reckoned with transgressors’; for what is written about me has its fulfillment" (Luke 22:37, RSV). The quoted verse is Isaiah 53:12.
Jesus agreed with the prophesies of Isaiah 53 which predates him and we have written record of it from 250 BC..Jesus was in agreement with the prophets before him and did fulfill the prophesies of Isaiah which foretold of him as Savior who would atone for sin with his life.
Isaiah 800 years before Christ made prophesies of the coming Messiah that he would be a savior and atone for the sins of his people with his blood. Christ did teach from Isaiah and referenced Isaiah 53 as the prophesy he must fulfill

EDIT You seem to miss the point that Christ was their teacher.
EDIT The scripture was always revealed to us by God without his revelation it is mere words. Many consider things contradictions because of this truth. If man tells you something you do not know it by that man's words but by revelation of God. It is God that makes his words real to you.

Answer 9

As Jews they were familiar with the doctrine of resurrection; it was the resurrection of the Son of Man that baffled them, because their theology had no place for a suffering and dying Messiah.

Answer 10

Just a guess but maybe at the time they still didn't fully believe that he was the Messiah.