Does anyone think that 2000 years ago people would not fabricate anything to gain power?

Question

then carry on with these fabrications to make people believe?Why is it not one christian ever takes a point onboard and accepts the possibilty,even 1%,that the bible is not the work of god?Do you not find this narrow minded or unreasonable?Do you spend your lives being 'unopen' to ideas?Do you think 'because I know' is polite when someone asks you to consider something?I know you have bet your whole life on religion, but why not look at the facts?Look at the world today,men still wanting power,it's evidentally in his nature.Why is it so hard to believe that this wasn't happening then? Do you believe this from a biography written about "Kim Jung Il"

"According to a North Korean book published in the mid-1990s called Divine Stories About the Dear Leader, Kim Jung Il played his first round of golf and scored five holes-in-one"

If this is real,absolute proof of man's desire to spread lies and propaganda to stay in power and feel more secure.What was different in Roman times?!

melanie-"If you really want facts and you refuse to accept God's word"

I don't believe in god as man made writing would never convince me.I also dealt with the fact that our brain can be delusional in my last question therefore asking me to pretend to believe to get a feeling of believe to prove it is out of the question. I need him to switch the tv over or start saving babies who are dying of Aids in Africa.

mikey
"If you are trying to say that the Bible is fabricated - there is one flaw"

There are no flaws, a religion that ,like many others. brutalised people into believing and uses a book with miracles and scare tactics such as heaven and hell is already not 100% true for me.Couple that with no evidence of a god whatsoever than I am skeptical. You may ask why I'd ever buy any book? It is the motivation behind a book such as that that will casue me to doubt also no concrete answers from any of it's believers-'I know it is true' is not good enough in the real world! This is what little kids say when they know they are right about something. Prime example, scientology at the moment, seen a few documentaries and articles from different people and Tom Cruise is in it, skeptical already..

"Agreed, power and money will influence folks to tell falsehoods. But as I demonstrated above, these temptations didn't exist for the early Christians.
The fact is that the Apostles and disciples who were martyred and/or suffered for their beliefs had no reason to do what they did IF they didn't completely and totally believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
Test me on this: would YOU die or be beaten to a pulp for a lie if there was nothing in it for you"

How do you know that these temptations existed-no demonst?Despite that,it never went from being poor to rich in one day did it??Had to start somewhere.
The martyrs, like you, believed!Therefore they didn't know it was a lie therefore died anyway.Invalid point again!
3rd of your points-it is irrelevant what I'd live or die for as we are not talking about me but if you were holding a family member and told me it was me or her I'd take the bullet,then u let her go so I died for a lie.

Suzanne-sorry no room
"But as I demonstrated above, these temptations didn't exist for the early Christians"

See you are into propaganda but you do not know it-"as I demonstrated above"You didn't demonstrate anything?See how easy it is if you write something down?If no one reads my counter claims that is all they will see-add this to someone who wants to believe because of fear of going to hell and BINGO we have a rumour that is now TRUE!!

Suzanne-"Test me on this: would YOU die or be beaten to a pulp for a lie if there was nothing in it for you? My guess is that you wouldn't. "

There will never be anything in it for me dying as I will be dead and then i will be a piece of meat-back to the apostles, would they died for nothing?Probably as they believed in a place called heaven.

bigondrums
"I completely believe that the Bible is the work of God"

Again liek Suzanne you simply say things with no reason whatsoever. why do you believe it is the work of god? You've admitted than man could change it so it is flawed already. There are so many reasons for it to be changed or pieces left out it is untrue!

barry.ch-ii never said I was right I just want people to understand that men lie all the time, you cannot just say that they wouldn't do it with your book?That's just silly. Of course they would.It is the 'promotional manual' for your faith!Because you are so intent on being right 100% as you alwayd think you then assume that a non beliver wants to be 100% right. Which in mine any many others just is not true.

Barry Ch-Stephen, a devoted disciple, was stoned. John, after failing to die in boiling oil, was exiled. In fact, almost all of the apostles were martyred for their beliefs. Are you saying that they were willing to suffer these things so that other men could gain power? What men? The difference in Roman times is that these men didn't use the gospel as a tool of political influence. It was a revolution of the heart.
You come just short of blasphemy, daring to compare the Bible with a biography of Kim Jung Il"

They were willing to suffer as they had no choice or they thought they were going to heaven,I am sure they weren't asked politely.
"It was a revolution of the heart" Says who? You?
1) blasphemy doesn't exist for me
2) you know full well I was not trying to compare the two-it was an example of a book that a man wrote with propaganda and lies-nothing to do with content
3) you are trying to create bad feeling by saying that and you know it to cling onto your irrational belief

Jean-The world had never seen a man such as Christ Jesus. John said that a book could not hold all the things that Christ did for people.

The first one I will concede but the second one? John said that...

Oh well if John said it then it must be true.

My friend, Christ even split time into BC and AD.

Ok?And your point is?

That proves that the man was revered possibly NOT that there is a god or that the bible is true.

Sorry, my friend, the Bible is the infallible Word of the Living God

Well that's it then! Case closed!

Answer 1

Sure, everyone lies, except those who wrote the bible

I mean, the bible says it's all true, so it must be true

Great question btw

Answer 2

Whatever was different in Roman times made a great impression on a large group of people throughout history. People have not only died for refusing to reject Christ, but they have died for the Word of Christ.

My friend, Christ even split time into BC and AD. The world had never seen a man such as Christ Jesus. John said that a book could not hold all the things that Christ did for people.
His ministry started at age 30 and he was crucified at age 33.

The word of God, the Holy Bible, King James Version and verified by the Dead Sea Scrolls is by far the greatest book ever written. It has more fulfilled prophesies than the world has ever known. When man started saying the Bible was man's writings and not God's and that the Catholic church had changed it up many time, THEN GOD presented the world with the Dead Sea Scrolls. You can't out prove our Lord. Jesus said, "even the stones will cry out about Him."
Archaeologist know this very well.

Sorry, my friend, the Bible is the infallible Word of the Living God. Too much proof for me not to believe even if I didn't know Christ personally as my Lord and Savior.

Answer 3

You sound pretty sure that you're right. I guess anyone that thinks differently doesn't have that luxury. Did any of the writers of the NT come to power because of their "fabrications"? Paul already was a man of authority, insomuch as he could issue orders to execute Christians. Since he was later beheaded in Rome for being a Christian himself, I don't think his career plans were very ambitious. Peter was crucified upside down. Stephen, a devoted disciple, was stoned. John, after failing to die in boiling oil, was exiled. In fact, almost all of the apostles were martyred for their beliefs. Are you saying that they were willing to suffer these things so that other men could gain power? What men? The difference in Roman times is that these men didn't use the gospel as a tool of political influence. It was a revolution of the heart.

You come just short of blasphemy, daring to compare the Bible with a biography of Kim Jung Il.

Answer 4

Let's look at this with an objective eye, ok?

During the first and second centuries, Jews and Gentiles who believed Jesus is the Messiah were harshly persecuted; this is substantiated within Roman and Jewish (i.e. non-Christian) sources. There was no power whatsoever within the Church, unless you consider being eaten by lions, or being lit on fire to serve as a human torch, as being "powerful."

Similarly, Jewish and Roman sources document the early Church was quite poor.

Agreed, power and money will influence folks to tell falsehoods. But as I demonstrated above, these temptations didn't exist for the early Christians.

The fact is that the Apostles and disciples who were martyred and/or suffered for their beliefs had no reason to do what they did IF they didn't completely and totally believe that Jesus is the Messiah.

Test me on this: would YOU die or be beaten to a pulp for a lie if there was nothing in it for you? My guess is that you wouldn't.

Answer 5

agreed one hundred percent.

but.. people's beliefs are not something that i have jurisdiction over. i'm alright with what i believe in and if christianity or whatever other religion makes someone a better person to others, i am all for them practicing it. radicalism/fundamentalism to anything means having a blind eye to common sense.. that usually causes disputes and at best, interpersonal problems. people have been slaughtered by the thousands over these last two thousand years by people that serve leaders and kings that believe every single word in that bible is the voice of god talking to them. i wish people would just take religion with a grain of salt.. but like i said, i have to just accept others for who they are and keep my beliefs for me

and kim jung il probably had the original 18 score keepers shot. f*kkin hole in one 5 times in a single game.. good money says he cant even see the hole from the tee.. thick a** glasses or not

Answer 6

If you are trying to say that the Bible is fabricated - there is one flaw - the Old testament was written yrs before the new testament and it tells the story of Jesus in it (Isaiah is a perfect example) Also, it predicts what would happen when Jesus did arrive, and it tells of other New testament figures too (John the Baptist is alluded too). And, now we (archeologists) are finding items that date back to 200 yrs ago that prove that Jesus was real and that there was a death and that he did resurrect. I know you probably are still skeptical, but skepticism is good - shows that you are thinking.

Answer 7

You apparently need to go back to basic science class before you step foot in a university biology class. If you were paying attention, you would've learned that science is a process and is therefore always changing. If you want to use a 2000+ year old book (even if it *were* a science book and not a spiritual text), you might as well stay home.

Answer 8

Most of the writers of the Bible were not men of position or power. They preached God's word in spite of terrible persecution. Many of the prophets were killed for their testimony regarding God's word.

The apostles were mostly fishermen, a tax collector, and the like. They had no position or power. They were warned that if they preached in the name of Jesus they would be killed, but they preached in the name of Jesus anyway.

All but one of them died a martyr. Only John the brother of James lived out a full life of nearly 100 years.

You should read about the deaths of these brave men.

This site attempts to give you a review on the subject, someday I will have each apostle posted to my website showing the greatness of their faith and the means of their death.

http://www.ccel.org/bible/phillips/CN500APOSTLES%20FATE.htm

grace2u

Answer 9

The Bible was written at a time when about 1% of the people were filthy rich, and the other 99% were dirt poor. Slavery was common. Women were seen as inferior. Not to mention, the fact that people believed in dragons, giants, witches, etc. The Bible confirms that the authors believed in all of these things and that things we consider unjust today were accepted by God. My answer to your question is yes, I do think people would fabricate in order to gain power.

Answer 10

Absolutely, that's why the gospel was changed. People wanting power. Remember how close church and state were 2000 years ago? The Holy Scriptures weren't even allowed to be read by the common people. I completely believe that the Bible is the work of God, so I don't agree with you there, but I do believe that all the translations and creeds that came from that era were for people to gain power. "Give us all your money, God says so". The church had tremendous control over people and Kings and Queens took note of this. I believe that the apostacy has occured that was prophecied. Because of this corruption, the Priesthood of God was taken from the earth and the famine of the words of the Lord occured just as the Bible said it would. We still have these Holy Scriptures and they should still be revered as Holy. But from all the translations and modifications, it is not inerrant. If it were, there would not be so many that interpret the same scripture as something different. This came from man's tampering with it over time.
The church has been restored and once I found it, all of this is so clear now. Research it for yourself and ask God if it is true. If you search for it with a sincere heart, God will let you know.

www.lds.org


EDIT
I saw your retort to me (along with everyone else that disagrees with you).
You are correct, men can lie. No one is disputing you on that. I guess your main issue is, why would anyone believe in a book that could be completely inaccurate. If you want "proof" that God exists or that the Bible is the word of God, I doubt you will ever find the "proof" that you deem is necessary to finally be settled with yourself. I believe that if angels came down and struck you to the ground and commanded you to believe in God, you would be scared to death and then 30 minutes later say, "man, it must have been that burrito I ate. I'm dreaming things!"
You are a sign seeker. You will never find what you are looking for. Let me educate you:
During the council in heaven (spoken of in revelations), we were all there present with our Heavenly Father. He told us of His plan for us to progress. We were to be sent to earth to gain a physical body and to have our faith in Him tested. Of course this sounded easy while we stood in His presence. Of course we will believe in you. We know you. But out of His presence some of us find it hard to believe in Him. We need "proof". Well, with proof there is no room for faith. He gives us instructions on how to return to Him, we must have faith in Him. Faith requires belief, or hope in things that have no proof. You will never have the proof you need until judgement day, then what will you do. I suggest you test yourself to see if you CAN believe. Once you seek out to believe with a sincere intent, you will be able to feel the power of the Holy Ghost (He that witnesses of the Father and of Jesus Christ). Once you feel that power, it's very hard to deny. Your craving for proof will seem irrelevant. What do you say? Will you put yourself to the test? Or are you in fear that you are wrong? If you choose to do nothing, just remember I warned you, you cannot tell me I did not once we are on the other side.
God Bless!

Answer 11

RIIIIIGGGHHHTTT. (insert sarcasm here)

a few people got together and said "HEY! I know what will make this more convincing! Let's add BC to the time frame BEFORE this guy was born, and AD to the time frame AFTER!"

If you really want facts and you refuse to accept God's word, start by reading "Evidence for Christianity" by Josh McDowell.