To Atheists: Do you believe we exist?

Question

Atheists disbelieve in all things supernatural. The laws of physics state that matter cannot be created nor destroyed, yet, matter WAS created or else we wouldn't be here. Our existence, by its very definition, is a supernatural event (not just transcendant to the natural laws, but indeed in complete contradiction).

These leaves us two possible conclusions:

1. Atheists do not believe matter exists. Thus, the atheist must also dismiss his own existence.

or

2. Atheists don't understand what is meant by "supernatural" when they broadly reject all forms of it. If this so, what other portions of atheistic belief do atheists fail to comprehend the repercussions thereof?

Thoughts?

(P.S. I'm agnostic.)

Paul S, if matter can be created and/or destroyed, then please give me an example of such a process. As it turns out, none exists.

I think I've got my answer. Atheists generally don't understand the laws of physics. This never occurred to me before.

By the way, matter is energy. An atomic bomb doesn't "destroy" matter, it merely changes its state. I'd lecture about the laws of thermodynamics at this point, but I suspect I'd be wasting breath.

I'm amazed that anyone would suggest that atheists believe in the supernatural. A person who doesn't explicitly believe in a deity but might believe in the supernatural is a pantheist or an agnostic, not an atheist.

Tom, my reasons for dismissing that possibility is because the by and large consensus of the scientific community does so.

Answer 1

"The laws of physics state that matter cannot be created nor destroyed"

Wrong.
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"Paul S, if matter can be created and/or destroyed, then please give me an example of such a process. As it turns out, none exists."

Wrong again. From NASA's "Ask an Astrophysicist" (source below):
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The Question
(Submitted July 24, 1997)

Why is it impossible, at this point in time, to convert energy into matter?


The Answer
It happens all the time. Particle accelerators convert energy into subatomic particles, for example by colliding electrons and positrons. Some of the kinetic energy in the collision goes into creating new particles.
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Answer 2

For starters, do Athiests not believe in the Supernatural? I know lots of them who believe in ghosts, Psychic Powers, any number of other supernatural phenomana. I think athiests don't believe in an all powerfull god, or one true religion.

A Scientist (a good one at least) will acknowledge we're always learning new things. Very little is known about the creation of the universe, we learn more every year, but an athiest believes there is a scientific explanation, even if we don't understand it yet. I think you're confused - there is no law that says matter can't be created or destroyed, I suspect you're thinking of the theory (i forget which) stating energy cannot be created or destroyed, all that happens is it changes form (Theory of CEnergy Conservation? Somebody help me out). The question is what form was this energy in before the creation of the universe as we know it.

Answer 3

e=m x c2
is there already a conclusion if the universe had a start? If it has a start is there anything known about amounts of energy before matter?
Lack of knowledge about an event does not mean that the cause of the event is supernatural. Look up the definition of it.

I don't really know how the guy in the next office building got to work. Doesn't mean he got there by supernatural means. Though maybe he did, he may just spontaneously have popped into existance. What do I know?

Answer 4

roflmao.

1. ENERGY can be neither created nor destroyed, it can only change form. All things are made of energy. ALL things. Its just different formations of energy. Don't believe me? The cells in your body, in a rock, in the water, etc are made up of a collection of smaller particles called molecules. Molecules are made up of atoms. Atoms are energy. *poof* all things are made of energy. Atoms are made of positive, negative, and neutral electrons. Electrons are energy people.

Thus, just because matter can be destroyed, it means nothing at all.

Nowhere does it say that matter can not be destroyed. We all see matter destroyed every day.

2. As for whether Atheists believe in the supernatural.... I'm an Atheist and I most definately believe in the supernatural. All the supernatural is, is things that haven't been explained yet.

For example: I know ghosts exist. There's even some evidence for them in the scientific community, just nothing definate enough to put a persons foot down and say "Ghosts exist".

3. I most definately DO understand the supernatural. I also understand science better than you do or you wouldn't have said something so stupid about how "matter can't be destroyed" when nowhere in science does it say that.

4. You need to actually pay attention instead of picking things out of your own head because your post is completely wrong in every way.

If you can't get the facts right, then don't even bother to try because it only makes you look foolish.

Edit: oh man.... you need to go back to school hon. Your understanding of basic science is terrible at best.

Answer 5

I don't understand how the creation over a long period of time of the human qualifies as supernatural as opposed to just evolution of species. It's not like it happened overnight with a magical mouse touting a wand of sorts. Also, what makes you think atheists don't believe in the supernatural? I don't think it's an official consensus of atheists around the world.

I guess what you are saying is that most atheists are nihilists and that would almost make sense too. Supernatural is only supernatural when it is believed or claimed as such. What if people could reappear and disappear and that was a normal day-to-day occurence? We would typically deem that as supernatural, but if it was normal, it would just be accepted.

Not to be cliche, but it's almost like 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. It's all a matter of interpretation(just like religious babblings).

Answer 6

supernatural means beyond or other than that which is natural.
adopting a supernatural theology does not help in resolving origin issues. it just passes the buck and causes one ponder the origin of the supernatural interloper.

our existence does not contradict natural laws. it appears to nothing but natural laws.
there is no indication that matter was not here one day and here the next. it is thought that matter and time are components of each other and are contemporaneous. neither able to exist on its own or prior to, or after the other.

supernature aside, your assertion that matter does not exist is a little closer to the mark. at lest in the sense that the closer we look for the "stuff" that comprises the universe, the less we find. we find attractive and repulsive forces interacting, but as far as i am aware, no stuff.
like i said before, atheists have observed and proved natural laws, but nothing else.

Answer 7

On the one hand you say matter cannot be created on the other hand you say it was created.
In the first case you site a scientific law. In the second case you express your opinion that it was created (as opposed to having always existed perhaps?)
You go on to define existence as a super natural event. I define it as;

1 a: the state or fact of having being especially independently of human consciousness and as contrasted with nonexistence
b: the manner of being that is common to every mode of being
c: being with respect to a limiting condition or under a particular aspect
3: actual or present occurrence

none of which suggest to me a supernatural event.

further more your statement "not just transcendent to the natural laws, but indeed in complete contradiction" I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

And finally, It leaves you not us with only your two conclusions.

Oh, one more thing "scientific consensus" is some what of an oxymoron. Scientific consensus is not, by itself, a scientific argument, and is not part of the scientific method. If any thing it is a term used in an attempt to validate politicized assertions. We first started seeing the term mainly in reference to the global warming debate. re: your additional details concerning Tom's statement.

Answer 8

The laws of physics do not state that matter cannot be created or destroyed. the laws of physics state that the total sum of matter and energy doesn't change, but you can destroy matter and create more energy (e.g. atomic bomb, nuclear reaction). Energy = Mass times Speed of Light (squared).

Atheists just believe that God doesn't exist. That's all that's required to be an atheist.

Answer 9

"yet, matter WAS created or else we wouldn't be here"

Not necessarily. Why have you dismissed the possibility of matter existing eternally, in some form?

You have also left a nice bifucation fallacy, attempting to force people to conclude that atheists don't understand what is meant by "supernatural".

Answer 10

And are you arrogant enough to say how physics work for the entire universe? For all we know, there are "laws" that are entirely different from what we can perceive, or conceive, here on earth. Or just laws that are not entirely different, but beyond our current understanding. And by the way, your premise on not creating matter is WRONG.