Christians, why does every single argument used to support the existence of God rely on a logical fallacy?

Question

Before saying this is not true, consider the fact that I have had enough discussions over the years to have probably already heard whatever witty or clever argument you may think you can present. Each argument has ended the exact same way: "God does exist, but does not make sense logically, and that is ok because he is the Almighty God, and his logic is above and beyond human understanding.. Therefore, one must have faith."

I believe that an all powerful god would be able to support his existence without the need for logical fallacies. In addition, I believe that the group of people who believe in and claim to follow this god should at least include some kind of large percentage who do so due to logic and reason rather than logical fallacies and faith alone.

New Catholic, I found a list of "miracles" recorded over time. This proves only that some things that happened, if they did actually happen, were unexplainable at the time and might still be unexplainable. The existence of occurrences which cannot currently be explained by science is not evidence of a christian god and more than it is evidence of an invisible pink unicorn. Logical fallacy present: False Dilemma.

EnviroDude, there is no eyewitness testimony for this event. Using the bible is proof is begging the question that the bible is true. Also, there is no proof that God did it even if it did happen. Logical Fallacies: Circular reasoning and false dilemma

Regius F (Tom), I recall one instance where you provided a long windy science lecture irrelevant to the question. And another where you first agreed then backpeddled to original stance on the basis of unsubstanciated claims and false dilemma arguments. My favorite though was the answer you gave insulting me so cleverly and artistically that I had to give you props because I was so impressed with your creative writing that I completely ignored the fact you were trying to be insulting. All of this has done nothing, however, to provide any answer to any of the questions worth reading for the sake of obtaining an actual direct answer.

Pastorart74, the assumption is made based on experience. If the assumption is wrong, I will be happy to concede if it can be proven. Otherwise, you are dodging the question... probably because you know I am right.

AsyoungS, yes I have seen this before (copy & pasted actually). Logical fallacies: Strawman (My denial of the Christian god is not a suggestion of something else), and False dilemma (if one possibility is wrong, that does not mean another MUST be right.

Conan the librarian, yes, faith must be present because you cannot ultimately prove one way or the other. However, the default position is that there is no god. The christians make the claim that god exists. The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. Since the claim cannot be proved, there is no reason to believe it.

David S, you are right in a sense. I already know that it cannot be proved. My asking is not an indication that I hope to find proof. Instead, I consider the possibility that others may read the discussion and cease to believe for the sake of their own intellectual honesty and personal sanity.

Soulsista, your faith in fictional things causes you to be a potential danger to society. FYI, I woke this morning because the girl in bed with me kissed my forehead. Also, you can read where science clearly explains the process of falling asleep and waking up. It has to do with functions of the brain and such. Being that it may be too much for you to comprehend is no reason to assume "God must have done it". That type of tmentality is the breeding pool of ignorant and stupid claims used to explain the world around us.

Answer 1

Well, I studied argumentation theory for years in university, I was on the debate team, and so on... The one thing I've come to realize is that fallacies are often more persuasive than valid arguments - at least to those who don't know better.

Argumentum ad hominems are so prevalent in political elections for this reason, arguments to authority are very common in commercials, and you see fallacious arguments everywhere and in common day conversations. I literally see fallacies brought up in arguments or discussions on a daily basis (and many religious posts here), everything from "Oh, you're criticizing my behavior, but you do it too!" (fallacy of the "tu quoque") to "No, I can't prove it exists, but can you prove it doesn't exist?" (Appeal to ignorance and trying to shift the burden of proof to the wrong person) and so on...

As someone who is educated in logic, this is very disconcerting and frustrating to me. But it's just the way the mind works, people are very taken in with fallacies. By their definition a fallacy is a terrible, and logically void argument that happens to sound good and convincing.

Answer 2

Hi,
Have you read these argument?

Most arguments about evolution and intelligent design offer only anecdotal evidence and are inherently incapable of actually proving anything. We must get better evidence in order to get to the bottom of this! Fortunately, the science of modern communications easily provides us with the tools we need to get answers. Although the details are complex, the concepts are easily grasped by anyone with a high school education.
Patterns occur naturally - no help required from a 'designer'. Many patterns occur in nature without the help of a designer – snowflakes, tornados, hurricanes, sand dunes, stalactites, rivers and ocean waves. These patterns are the natural result of what scientists categorize as chaos and fractals. These things are well-understood and we experience them every day.
Codes, however, do not occur without a designer. Examples of symbolic codes include music, blueprints, languages like English and Chinese, computer programs, and yes, DNA. The essential distinction is the difference between a pattern and a code. Chaos can produce patterns, but it has never been shown to produce codes or symbols. Codes and symbols create information, which is not a property of matter and energy alone. Information itself is a separate entity on par with matter and energy.
Proof that DNA was designed by a mind: (1) DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism. (2) All codes we know the origin of are created by a conscious mind. (3) Therefore DNA was designed by a mind, and language and information are proof of the existence of a Superintelligence.
We can explore five possible conclusions:
1) Humans designed DNA
2) Aliens designed DNA
3) DNA occurred randomly and spontaneously
4) There must be some undiscovered law of physics that creates information
5) DNA was Designed by a Superintelligence, i.e. God.

(1) requires time travel or infinite generations of humans. (2) could well be true but only pushes the question back in time. (3) may be a remote possibility, but it's not a scientific explanation in that it doesn't refer to a systematic, repeatable process. It's nothing more than an appeal to luck. (4) could be true but no one can form a testable hypothesis until someone observes a naturally occurring code. So the only systematic explanation that remains is (5) a theological one.
To the extent that scientific reasoning can prove anything, DNA is proof of a designer

Answer 3

First of all, you make the statement that support of the existence of God relies on a "logical fallacy" yet you do not establish what that fallacy is. Your argument is already breaking down.

Then you use the words "fact" and "probably" in the same sentence to describe the same thing. Again, your argument is neither founded on the logic that you want to cling to nor is it sound.

Finally, you state that your BELIEF is that God would be able to support his existence. So what you believe is that the God that you would bow down to and acknowledge as your Lord and creator of the universe owes you something. He has to perform to your satisfaction before you will acknowledge Him as God. What a pathetic god you would serve.

So when you stand before Him at the last judgment your strategy is to blame Him for your decision.... "You didn't speak to me personally" - "You didn't appear to me and do tricks to make me believe in You." - "It's all your fault." Just like a petulant little child. Your arguments didn't work for Job. I suspect that they won't work for you either.

Romans 1 talks about how the "invisible things of God are clearly seen". But, as you know, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

Answer 4

I am an ex-minster and I can assure you that Christianity and beliefs in god are nothing more than logical fallacies. Years of study of the christian religion proved only one thing, that it was all false.

There is no logical reason to believe in god. Every reason a christian can give is thwarted by a dozen or so simple responses.

Answer 5

Investigate Cardinal Newman's understanding of the illative sense.

Further, a potential fallacy in your own reasoning is that rationality is limited to the apprehension of the material and the empirical-- is this true, or is it merely a cultural prejudice that is a result of modernity. Perhaps you should suspend your inquiry into the question of God's existence, and deepen your understanding of epistemology itself. After all, since no one can coerce you to have religious faith, and you have seem to have arrived at your own conclusions in this regard-- why does the question still pre-occupy so much of your attention?

Answer 6

Belief in God is illogical. Church leaders acknowledged this. Christian thinkers and philosophers such as Kierkegaard, Pascal, and even C.S. Lewis acknowledged it.

Kierkegaard is a highly regarded and influential philosopher who argued for faith over logic, rationalism and empiricism. Read more about him if you like.

Nietzsche dealt some heavy blows to rationalism.
Wittgenstein did as well.

Christians rely on faith to sustain them. When arguing with someone they will attempt logic (:

Answer 7

Usually when I hear an atheist "debunk" a proof for God's existence, it hinges upon questioning the premises upon which the Christian's argument rests. This is how philosophy destroyed itself, and using contemporary philosophical arguments, I can disprove you exist. I can even disprove my own existence. (One of the empiricists did this long ago, and he believed it too).

If I went through the bother, you would probably not be impressed. I feel the same way about atheist apologetics. The truth is, you cannot prove anything without faith, or at least faith in your premises. Faith and reason are inseparable

Answer 8

God doesn't need to support his existence purely with logic, which is only one part of what makes up logical and spiritual man, when man has opposed the very truth of man's existence by denying the spiritual part of himself.

The bible says that God is a spirit and they which worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Psalm 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

Answer 9

Since God is Pure Spirit by definition, He is beyond measurement. Belief in God is, generally, a matter of faith -- one is willing to believe even though there is no measurable proof of His existence. However, philosophers as far back as Aquinas and earlier offered their "proofs" of the existence of God. Aquinas has his "quinque viae," i.e., the five ways to prove it. He says, e.g., (quite simply) that all things we know are caused by something else, something beyond themselves. Nothing is the cause of itself. Considering all existence, is existence the cause of itself? Not that we know of. Then who/what caused all things to exist? The Uncaused Cause, which we call God. It might be helpful for you to go to your library and look for Thomas Aquinas' proofs for the existence of God.

Christians, who believe the things Jesus did and taught, might say simply that Jesus believed in God, as is evident throughout the New Testament; therefore, God must exist.

Answer 10

Why?..HELLO !!!!! Christianity is BASED ON FAITH!!!!! ARE YOU HEARING ME? You woke up this morning, not because a bird woke you, or your alarm clock or, or wife or any other thing or person. God woke you this morning. You otta be thankful. Whatever you believe is YOUR belief. What Christian's believe is OUR Belief, which is by FAITH. And just because you think that it should be logical for you to understand really means nothing except to you. You have to CHOOSE to believe by Faith.PERIOD:)