your thoughts on magick?

Question

OK so if it matters to any of you I'm Wiccan...but anyway....
what reasonings does anyone have for not believing in magick? though from a christian viewpoint it would probably be said that taking the highest authority and belief away from 'god' is a 'sin' (how convinient for him, huh?) but then...do you pray?
prayer is spell. magic and spellcasting can be broadly defined as "the act of effecting the outcome of something through will." and when you're praying do you not believe that you will make a difference in doing so? the biggest difference would be that if you're Wiccan you also believe that power is in you and in everytihng, instead of *just* god but really it's about the same in some ways.

aslo is it so hard to believe there are things we don't know about yet?
had you produced a lighter from your pocket some time ago you would have been thought to be a witch. isn't it credible than to say some of the things people tend to disregard are thrown aside too carelessly?

Answer 1

There is no better modern authority on "magick" than Aleister Crowley. His books are generally lucid and laconic, in stark contrast to practically every other author on the subject. "Book 4" and "Magick in Theory and Practice" are good places to start. Bear in mind that he had a somewhat outre sense of humor!

I understand the "atheist" objection to magick as simply another form of superstition. But Crowley's system is skeptical; he insists that the magus refrain from "attributing objective reality or philosophical validity" to any of the "beings" he invokes, etc. "By doing certain things, certain results follow." His idea was to apply the scientific method to the problems of religion. Try the experiment; record the results. It's absolutely possible - practically a prerequisite - for a magician to be atheist.

Answer 2

I'm not a Wiccan, but I'll go for it.

Prayer and magic have two different ideas. Magic is YOUR Will. Prayer is a deities Will. You pray to whoever [Christians to YHVH, Wiccans to their amalgamated Gods, and such] and have them do their bit. Magic you seek to use your will to affect change.

One of the issues older Pagan religions had with magic, was that it was putting some of the powers of the Gods in the hands of man.

Sorry for not using the K, but I'm not speaking of Thelemetic Magick. I'm merely working off the basic kinds.

Answer 3

you do have very interesting views that i would like to learn more about, just to get that out of the way first. now personally i think magic/magick doesnt exist. many times i do wish prayer and magic did something but i know it doesnt. its all in your own will to do something positive with your life. if you say something (a spell or prayer) to help you get over an illness it wasnt through any supernatural event. your mind controls a bit of your biological functions (like immune response) and if you believe something helps then it probably will. again these are my personal thoughts on the matter.

Answer 4

let me get this out there, I'm not Christian, but I'm not Wiccan....I do believe in God, and I do believe in Magick. I cannot truthfully say that I believe in one religion, simply because there are so many contradictions in a single religion it almost seems impossible to put complete faith in just that single one. What I believe is that God loves us, and He/She (thats another belief I have) is willing to do anything to keep us from going to hell, yet, in the catholic religions they say if you are psychic or have any extra-sensory abilities that you're already destined to hell. Well I was born as someone who sees premonitions, I was born as someone who can foretell what someone will say to me today, I was born with these abilities....thanks to God. So how could I be born with out a single chance of ascending into heaven? According to catholicism I cant, but God gives everyone at least one chance, even the most sinful of sinners. So I think that it would be ridiculous to be catholic and not except the Magick and other amazing traits.

Answer 5

Big question... The short form answer. To me a prayer is when you try to bounce your intention off God like a satellite. A spell is when you try to directly influence with your intent.

The problem is that most folks don't take responsibility for the fact that all their thoughts are shaping the world around us 24/7

"Thou shalt not covet they neighbors wife" is about more than the surface sleazy behavior. Thoughts are things that have repercussions. Like when you are thinking of someone then the phone rings and it's them. Which came 1st?

Personal responsibility for our thoughts, with or without the political structure and doctrines of any one discipline is to me the key.

Answer 6

First we need a definition of "magick," especially if we are to compare and contrast it with "magic," the more conventional spelling. With the "k," it is the way Aleister Crowley spelled it, and lots of people have picked that up with questionable intent.

Your comment about the cigarette lighter is well taken. Remember Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court." Knowledge or skills which are unknown and inexplicable to others not only is indistinguishable from magic, in many ways it IS magic. (Or magick, if you prefer.) And as you point out, much of it is the focus of one's true will, not in setting aside or in spite of Nature, but in cooperation with Nature. Spells and charms of attraction are of that sort, certainly, as are many others.

But remember the Witch's Rede: that which you do returns to you three-fold. If you do good, mazel tov. But if you do harm, when it is multiplied by three, it may kill or permanently maim you in rebounding. Err on the side of caution when dealing with all forms of magick.

Answer 7

I'm Atheist and I do think it's similar to prayer.
And I don't give prayer much thought.
No disrespect, but I don't believe that your magick works any better than other religion's prayers. It's all a form of the supernatural.

Answer 8

the entire factor of formality magick is to no longer imagine about it, yet to allow pass of reason and to be intoxicated by utilising the ambience, to regulate your psych. My wager is that you're wanting a Thelemic clarification, although i'm giving a LaVeyan attitude. He stated as the ritual room, the "psychological decompression chamber."

Answer 9

I believe in magic because it is a skill. I believe in prayer because it is the power of God and our prayers will be answer according to his will. It is a wise person that will admit they do not know everything

Answer 10

"the act of effecting the outcome of something through will."

Why do you need a spell? Wouldn't action be more efficient? Why waste time and energy with prayer or spell?

Clearly, I think it is unnecessary and even detrimental when that energy could be put toward action.