Catholics, LDS, JW's?

Question

I asked the following question earlier:

Catholics, LDS, and JW's?
Read the following passages of scripture and comment... take the time to do this so you can give an INTELLIGENT answer.

romans chapters 3 & 4; Galatians 2:16,21; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; and Philippians 3:4-9?

Seriously...
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Now, many said that I had no point to my question... here it is...

how can you read these verses and continure to believe that you must earn your way to heaven?

Just give plain, direct answers.

Oh, so where did I get this idea that the Catholics, JW's, and LDS teach salvation by works?

[1] the Catechism
[2] Watchtower Missionaries who came to my house for a "Bible study"
[3] Ex-Mormon friends

that help?

Okay all you RUDE Catholic "Christians" out there... I have read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1994 and 1997 editions. I have read parts of the Counsels of Trent, and have read Vatican documents... I KNOW what you teach; I have two catholic neighbors, and two former Catholics who attend my church whom I can ask for reference... Don't say i'm misinformed.

Answer 1

Jehovah's Witnesses consider their hope to be an undeserved GIFT. It is preposterous to suggest that Jehovah's Witnesses think they can somehow EARN salvation.

What true Christians (such as Jehovah's Witnesses) recognize is the plain bible teaching that an ostensible "Christian" can disqualify himself from receiving God's gifts.

(Matthew 7:21) Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will


While Jehovah's Witnesses understand faith to be the primary thing for a Christian, they also understand that professed "faith" is not a license for a sinner to continue to indulge his sin.

(Matthew 7:20-23) Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize... Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.


One's faith must have SOME effect on the individual's personality and lifecourse. The Scriptures quite plainly explain that humans can disqualify themselves from receiving everlasting life; it is only the faithful COMPLETION of a life course that assures salvation.

(Zephaniah 2:3) Seek Jehovah, all you meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. PROBABLY you may be concealed in the day of Jehovah's anger. [emphasis added]

(Amos 5:15) Hate what is bad, and love what is good, and give justice a place in the gate. It MAY be that Jehovah the God of armies will show favor [emphasis added]

(Matthew 7:13-14) Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

(Matthew 24:13) But he that has endured TO THE END is the one that will be saved. [emphasis added]

(Philippians 2:12) Keep WORKING OUT your own salvation with fear and trembling [emphasis added]

(Hebrews 10:26-27) For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment

(Hebrews 5:9) [Jesus] became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those OBEYING him [emphasis added]

(James 2:14,17) Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? ...17 Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself.

Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/1996021/article_02.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/rq/
http://watchtower.org/e/ti/index.htm?article=article_09.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/pr/index.htm?article=article_03.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/lmn/index.htm?article=article_11.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/dg/index.htm?article=article_11.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/jt/index.htm?article=article_04.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/rq/index.htm?article=article_15.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/pr/index.htm?article=article_04.htm

Answer 2

IF we could be "saved" by grace alone, where would our free agency come in? What would be the point of this life? How would we learn good from evil if there were no rewards or consequences for any of our actions?
I think of it this way: Life is a big cup. A full cup = eternal life with God. No matter how much we try, we will never be able to fill our cup all the way. That is where Christ "steps in" and after all we can do, will "fill" the rest of the cup for us, depending on how deserving we are.

Answer 3

all arminians must be inclded like Methodist who bleieve that they can loose their salvation, so they must constantly be WORKING at it. It also depends on what a Mormon bible says about these scriotures, pending that Jo smith did not change the wording, is what I mean, also a Mormon does not believe that your bible is complete and his is, so to list your scriptures is almost a waste of time. Catholics also have more book sin their bible then a christian KJV or an NIV or any translation.

Answer 4

I have never known any Catholic or JW to claim that you earn your way to salvation. Some of their doctrines might seem like they come close to that, but as far as I know their doctrines still teach that grace is a gift that we cannot earn.

By the way, even if a doctrine requires someone to do something in order to obtain salvation (such as baptism, for example) it does not mean that you are earning your salvation. If I give you a check for a million dollars you have nothing but a piece of paper. You have to take that check to the bank in order to actually have that money. Taking it to the bank, however, is not earning the money. As long as salvation is based on the works of Christ, and not ours, any one teaching a doctrine that you must do a certain action to be saved is not teaching salvation by works. They are simply teaching a doctrine, right or wrong, that there are steps in accepting that gift, just like taking that check to the bank.

As to the Mormon church, they only believe that the Bible is the word of God in as much as it agrees with the Book of Mormon, so it is difficult to prove anything to them from the Bible.

Answer 5

"no one gets crowned unless he competes according to the rules" "it is the farmer who does the work who ought to have the first share of the crops" "Let us not grow weary in doing what is right, for we will all reap at harvest time, if we do not give up" "athletes exercise self-control in all things. they do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable one... I punish my body and make it my slave, so that after preaching to others I myself should not be disqualified" "To those who by patiently doing good seek the glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life"

Martin Luther, the author of your doctrine, did not show the fruits of the spirit in his anger and hostility, and we know that "no good tree bears bad fruit". Luther has an interesting quote: "Be a sinner and sin boldly, but rejoice in Christ all the more, the sacrifice for our sins" Wow... and this contradicts Paul, who tells Timothy to rebuke those who persist in sin. Or maybe you prefer Calvin, who annihilated the free will? Or Wesley, who said, "I do not love God, I never did" when he was an old man. Look up the eary Christians from the first few centuries, and you'll see if they resemble the protestants in any fashion.

Answer 6

The LDS religion has never said we earn our way to heaven it is trough the savior we are all saved. But to say you can just say "i believe" then go out and live a lifestyle that is not christian like is being a hypocrite.
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
Matthew 5:14-16 "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."
Being a Christian is more then just believing. If you have truly become a Christian then you will want to live your life so that those around you will know you are a Christian.

Answer 7

I feel so ignored and unloved. We Messianic Jews believe in following scripture too you know. Since we love the law of God and believe that those who love God will obey Him I think you need to include us in your open attacks of other believers. But I'll not answer your question because I don't know if they teach that or not.

Okay I married a catholic and no they never taught her that. But hey she was nominal catholic anyway, after all she married a nut case Messianic Jew.

1 John 5:1-3 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

Shalom Alechem Ya'll and if I shouldn't get back Good Sabbath.

Answer 8

Jesus saves us.

God is not going to be looking for Denominational ties at the time of your death. He is going to be checking the “Book of Life.” If your name is not in it, you’ll be denied access to Heaven. (Revelation 20:15)

The Early Christians got puffed up and followed different doctrines. Some said they followed the teachings of Paul and others said they followed the teachings of Timothy, etc. Paul admonished everyone and said they were to follow Jesus, not any man. Therefore we know disputes about doctrine began early on. Once the early church became organized, they formed councils to sort matters out. Councils representing the entire Church were called ecumenical councils. Then, like now, church is an institution which teaches about Jesus, but many churches, then, like now, still teach different doctrines. However, the central theme of any real Christian Church is about Jesus Christ and the Salvation of all Mankind. If you worship God at a church whose central theme is not about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, i.e. Salvation through Jesus, then you should get out of that church, whether or not they claim to be Christians.

You become saved by accepting Jesus and what He did for you (John 3:16) and you become a member of the family of God by becoming baptized into a Christian denomination (Galatians 3:27).

Remember, you do not make it to Heaven based upon your church membership, affiliation, or attendance, how religious you are, how much money you give, or how much you study the Bible.

As Christians, we are not saved by following a set of rules and regulations. You cannot work your way into Heaven, nor can you say your doctrines are better than someone else's so they won't be in Heaven.

We are saved by the blood of Jesus, not church affiliation.
We are to be known by our good works, not church affiliation.
We are to attend a church to stay strong in our faith, increase in our knowledge, associate with other Believers, and worship and praise the Lord at His house.

Answer 9

heavily, are we going to have dueling verses? My terrific responses are James 2:17 and James 2:26. interesting which you probably did no longer incorporate Ephesians 2:10 "Created in Christ Jesus to do reliable works which God arranged in improve for us". The Bible is an quite long e book, certainly sixty six or seventy 3 books looking on your denomination, that have been written over the path of roughly 4 thousand years by 50 or greater authors and have now been tacked jointly. of direction there are inconsistencies. Peace.

Answer 10

I think you must first understand the difference between eternal life, resurrection, exaltation, salvation, heaven, hell, etc. Here is a short article that should make it clear. It is not intended to make you believe in what I am saying, but to show you that people can and many do believe that works are also important, but that without Jesus Christ nothing matters.

"What is the work and glory of God? “To bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39; emphasis added). I will explain the difference between these two ends: immortality and eternal life.

Bringing to pass immortality is essentially a work of creation. God speaks, and worlds are formed. At the culmination of this work, man is placed upon the earth to learn, be tested, and gain experience.

Because of the sacrifice of the Son of God, the hour will come when “all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:28–29).

The just as well as the unjust are given a priceless and incomprehensible gift: immortality. Because of Jesus the Christ, we will live forever. We are immortal.

Eternal life, however, is something altogether different. Immortality is about quantity. Eternal life is about quality.

To use a metaphor, immortality is how long the dinner lasts. Eternal life is what is on the menu and who is with us at the table.

Eternal life is “the greatest of all the gifts of God” (D&C 14:7).

“Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him” (1 Corinthians 2:9).

Eternal life is the culmination of existence. As spiritual children of God, you and I are heirs to this priceless fortune, benefactors to a glorious future, recipients of grace.

If immortality is God’s work, then eternal life is God’s glory. However, eternal life does not come automatically. We must purge our hearts of evil and fill them with the desire to do good continually. Our Heavenly Father, with love that is scarcely within our power to comprehend, desires more than just our immortality. He desires each of us to partake of this greatest of all gifts: eternal life." Joseph B. Wirthlin

Answer 11

I'm a Catholic and I don't believe it is even POSSIBLE to 'earn your way to Heaven' ... because we are all human, and we all 'sin' in some way. That is why Jesus 'died on the cross' for ALL of us ... and I also do believe that it doesn't really 'matter' whether you call yourself a Christian or not, in the end ... because I believe that God is so LOVING and so FORGIVING that we will ALL (yes, even the mass murderers and baby killers) will go to Heaven in the end ... SEE YOU THERE!