Was God created?

Question

Every explanation for the existence of anything I have ever heard from Christians is that it must have been created by God. Things cannot appear out of no where and certainly no accident could produce something complex, especially if there is any indication of design. They conclude that this means man must have been created, the earth must have been created, the sun, the moon, the stars, everything.

Well then, if God exists, how did he come into existence?

If you try to claim that he always existed, you are contradicting your reasoning that anything in existence with complexity and signs of intelligence must have been created. If I was created, so was your god. If the planet earth was created, so was your god.

If you cannot explain how your God was created, should I believe a fairy tale? That seems to be the reason why I should believe the bible. I cannot explain how the universe was created, so it MUST have been your God, since you have a book that says so.

Stakekawa, I will relieve you of the burden of having to repeat your answer another time. Your answer rests upon a logical fallacy. Your comment made sense and was quite exciting up to the point where you said you had a simple explanation. You then presented an irrelevant topic and tried to apply it to the situation. You then tried to prove that God is escapes the rules of logic that are applied to everything else you claim was created. You proof for this escape was scripture. This is what we call circular reasoning and the logical fallcy of the false dilemma. In order for your claim to be true, the verse from your bible has to be true. You cannot prove the existence of God by using the bible any more than you can prove the existence of Hobbits by using the Lord of the Rings books. Sorry, but your circular logic and god whose existence is self-contradictory by definition cannot be proved by an uncredible source. And no, the bible is not a credible source simply because it says it is.

Knowing Gnostic, I am applying the supposed rules of what dictates a creation by what the Christians have claimed -not necessarily by what my standards are. If it is possible for God to have always existed. I see no reason why it is not just as possible for human life to have always existed. The assumption that is made is that God is the only thing that has always existed and need not be created. This assumption is made based on a predetermined belief that God exists. It is a logical fallacy of false dilemma.

Truth, the Christians claim that humans also have spirits. Therefore by your explanation, we all are also eternal and have always existed. But that cannot be the case, since we were created by God, therefore God can create spirits. If a spirit can be created, then God must also be able to have been created if he is a spirit.

skiingstowe, that is not at all what I am saying. You have presented me with a strawman attack, which is a logical fallacy. I do not deny the possibility of a creator. However, the acceptance of the possibility of a creator is in no way a direct indication that the creator must have been the Christian god. Anyone who believes this indication is guilty of believing the logical fallacy known as false dilemma. Is it not possible for there to be a creator but it not be the god of the Christians? True, just because one cannot explain something, this does not mean it is not real, true, or important. Just the same, just because someone offers an explanation, this does not mean that it must be real, true, or important. Claiming the Christian god must be the creator is just as flawed and ignorant as claiming there is no possibility of a creator.

zizo, are you suggesting that we ignore the scientifically established law that matter can neither be created nor destroyed?

Answer 1

Don't worry, I will get to your question; I just need to lay the groundwork.

The cosmos is here and must be explained as to how it got here. This argument is using the law of cause and effect, which states: Every effect must have a preceding and adequate cause.

Now, when it comes to explaining the existence of the universe, you only get three possibilities: (1) the universe is eternal (it has always been here), (2) the universe created itself, or (3) something created the universe. There is no other possibility except to claim that the universe is simply an illusion and does not exist—but I don’t think you would buy that.

Is the universe eternal? The Second Law of Thermodynamics (the law of energy decay or entropy) argues that it is not. Given enough time, the universe will experience what some call a “heat death” where there is maximum entropy; every part of the universe will be the same temperature, and no further work will be possible; all energy will be evenly distributed. Eternal things obviously do not wear out because they would have had an infinite amount of time to come to their end. Since you cannot have an end without a beginning, the universe must have had a beginning. Evolutionary astronomer Dr. Robert Jastrow said, “Now three lines of evidence—the motions of the galaxies, the laws of thermodynamics, the life story of the stars—pointed to one conclusion; all indicated that the Universe had a beginning.” And everything that has a beginning has a cause.

Did the universe create itself? The First Law of Thermodynamics (the law of energy conservation) argues that it did not. The First Law of Thermodynamics states that in a closed system (without a God, this Universe would have to be a closed system) the amount of energy present in that system is constant (it cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be converted from one form to another). So, if the Universe initially contained no energy, and then it spontaneously generated all of the energy in the present Universe, the First Law would be violated. Without intervention from an outside force, the amount of energy in the Universe would have remained constant and unchanged at zero.

I have to agree with Lord Kelvin (the Father of Thermodynamics) who said, “Do not be afraid of being free thinkers! If you think strongly enough you will be forced by science to the belief in God, which is the foundation of all religion. You will find science not antagonistic but helpful to religion.”

Someone may argue, “If the universe needs a cause, then why doesn’t God need a cause; who created God?” The answer is, everything that has a beginning has a cause; God, unlike the universe, did not have a beginning. Time is linked to matter and space (as we can see from Einstein’s general relativity). If God created the universe, then He created time along with matter and space. If God created time, then He is outside of time and doesn’t need a beginning.

If the universe is not eternal and could not have created itself, then the only remaining alternative is that the universe was created by something or Someone. This would have to be a transcendent, eternal, self-existing being.

What is more absurd, to believe that God created everything out of nothing or that nothing turned itself into everything? The fact is, we live in a Universe that is an effect. There must be a preceding and adequate cause for it. The only thing that makes sense is a Creator who is more powerful than anything we can imagine.

Answer 2

Yes, you must believe.

The matter is:

I believe in God. If he does exist, I will go and have eternal life. If he doesn't, then I've wasted an hour a week of my life at church. Not really wasted actually; I get volunteer and work experience hours because I'm a support guy.

You do not believe. If god does not exist, you will die and waste away into nothingness like everyone else. You will have lost nothing, but had one extra hour a week more than us.

Now ask yourself; what if you're wrong?

What if God does exist? Then you'll be in trouble, eh?

Its like buying insurance. If you buy insurance, in the case of the "unlikely", you will be safe. If you don't buy insurance, you'll save a couple of bucks, but if the unlikely happens... You are doomed.

The "fairy tale" eh? Thats called FAITH, something people today seem to lack. Its believing in something you can't see or, in some cases, understand.

Do you completely understand nuclear physics? I don't think so. Yet do you trust it?

Can you see electricity? No. Yet you trust it.

Putting your faith in "evolution" is exactly the same thing. There are facts to support it, yet it hasn't been proven; then again, there are facts to support Christianity (The Romans say-so), but Christianity has not been proven.

Faith is a complex thing. We will never completely understand it.

The question is:


Do you want to buy the insurance?

Answer 3

God is a spirit that's always existed. Spirits are eternal. This world is made up of natural things and beings, therefore they have a beginning and end. So if God is a spirit and has always dwelled in a heavenly (spiritual) place then he does NOT need a beginning . Spiritual things can't be understood with these finite minds of ours. People will never be able to explain away something that has always existed.

Answer 4

Was God Created...it is said that he has no beginning and no end.
that is a very good question and it comes with a deep answer that people don't take to well to because it is different or just plain too much to take in.
Before to world and everything in it ,including us, were created as we now know it. We and everything else were created spiritually first. We all started out as intelligences. That does not necessarily include God. It is impossible for us to know everything about God because he has revealed very little to us. However, he is very real. We were created in his image, meaning that he is a personage. I will not say anymore on the matter so that I may keep peace among us.

Answer 5

Hi,
There are many things in existence that can't be explained by even the brightest minds of today, so are you saying you can't believe in a Creator just because someone can't explained how (he or she) got here? Sounds like a pretty big cop out to me just because it's hard to explain. Hey, can you explain exactly how your brain processes information? Probably not, so does that mean you don't need it just because you don't understand the complexity of it!? I don't think so. And I certainly wouldn't bet my life on the theory that just because someone can't explain God doesn't mean he doesn't exist. Just a thought on some basic logic. Also, why do you think that God needed to be created? He claims to be from everlasting to everlasting, which means he is not limited by our perception of time and space. Time and space is all we know because we were born into the laws that govern this reality. Who are we to say God has to live by the same reality as we do. After all we didn't create the universe, so all we can do is wonder and question things....just like you did.

Answer 6

ok, there's no contradiction... there are things that we can see, hear, touch, smell & taste (matters), and there are things that we can't (non-matters)... matters are things that have mass & volume, that exists in 3d space dimentions & a time dimention (may be other dimentions also)

assume God is the creator of matter, then God can not be a matter...
since God is not a matter, then he has no time dimention.., (i.e: God has no time) Then, he exists forever, therefore he was not created (if He was created then He has an initial time when He started, but we said that He has no time, then this event never happens)... for us, God created us & created time

another answer: if God was created then he is not a god.. He then needs his creator, & that creator needs another & so on up to infinity gods... this universe should only have one creator who is the master that controls all his creatures, to be so he should not be affected by the effects of his creatures

i hope you got it

Answer 7

As a Muslim I would explain it like this logically;

We cannot say when God began, neither can we say when he finishes. So he must be uncreated, for every created thing has a beginning and an end. So we are unable to define this so we must come to the conclusion that God is uncreated.

One of main problems that people have is due to them trying to understand God using baseless premises. What I mean is that man tries to understand God, from a human perspective using this world as a reference. The Laws of creation apply to creation not to what made the laws.

Does this make sense? Please contact me if I haven't explained this correctly.

Answer 8

I have answered this question 50 times already as well...come on Atheists...don't you got something original up your sleeves...here is my copied and pasted answer from someone else who asked the same thing...geez...2 points...

Trump Card

I have found from experience that the popular atheist's question, "Who made God?" doesn't deserve to have a question mark. It is usually presented as a statement. The questioner is persuaded that such a question cannot be answered. A twinkle is usually seen in his eye as he tosses what he thinks is his trump card onto the table. He gambles his very soul on the belief that there is no higher card--that it cannot be answered.

Actually, the explanation is very simple. Does space have an end? If it does--if there is a brick wall at the end of space that reads "The End," I want to know what's behind the brick wall. By faith you and I are forced to believe that no matter in which direction we set off, space will never end. It just goes on and on and on--forever. It has no beginning or end. It hurts the brain to think about such a state, but we have no choice but to accept that fact by faith.

God also has no beginning and no end. But with God, we have a little more information than we have with space. Time is a dimension that God has created and it is to this dimension that mankind is subjected. We have to wait for time to pass. We can't jump ahead even one second in time. We are enslaved in its power. It is because we are in time that reason demands a beginning and an end. It hurts the brain to think of any other dimension.

God is not subject to the dimension of time. He dwells in eternity. The Bible tells us that a day to the Lord is as a thousand years to us (see Psalm 90:4 & 2 Peter 3:8). God can flick through time as you and I flick through the pages of a history book. If you find this hard to believe, even when confronted with the evidence of biblical prophecies, you will find it to be true one day. The Scriptures tell us that God will eventually withdraw time, and we will then dwell in eternity.

The Christian is told that he understands "by faith." This happens if I have major surgery. I trust a surgeon, even though I have no real understanding of how he is going to operate. I have to trust him or there will be no operation. I understand that he has the ability to make me well, so I have faith in him.

In the same manner, I trust God. Many have died at the hands of surgeons, but no one perishes in the hands of God. God's ability is boundless and His promises are "both sure and steadfast, an anchor of the soul" (Hebrews 6:19). Doctors and pilots will fail you, friends you trust will disappoint you, elevators will let you down, but the promises of Almighty God are utterly trustworthy. This may be hard for you to appreciate at this time, but I want to encourage you to have an open mind.

Answer 9

Good question.
First let me state that our limited minds cannot comprehend everything that is "God". So we start off at a distinct disatvantage. Many times we must work on faith.

God is eternal. Menaing he has no end and no begining. Now for us linier beings we have a hard time with no begining. I know I have blown my brain a couple of times thinking about it. We also are eternal, not in our present forms but as inteligences. God provided us with the forum in which to prove to ourselves what we want in our next stage of exsistance just as his Father did for him and so on and so forth. Our Father in Heaven created for us this world and has given us our agency to act as we will. when we have passed on we will once again be etranl beings not linier beings and will be able to comprehend the vastness of God. For now we must have faith and believe.

Answer 10

How about there was no God when nothing has been created to recognize Him. Man in his quest for answer on "How did man come about?" must have been awed with the wonders of nature around him. Just as you wonder to such a magnificient view of a raw landscape. And he began to wonder further of how can a creation exist with almost everything made ready for one's existence such as fruit of the trees and other source of nourishment.
Nature and the elements of nature must have been a great factor for man's discovery of himself. Wondering where the sun is coming from and how come there is light and darkness. As one survives within nature, it is also within nature that one succumbs to its death. Superstitions must have given man the idea of someone being the origin of all lives and the nature's trembling occurences must have been reflected on their mind as sign of their wicked or wrong decisions in their social functions or individual mistakes.
Man have to learn how to reason first before he could understand the existence of something beyond his own level of consciousness and that made him believe that there is God that made everything possible. The Mystery of God's origin could be a very complex one in the mind of someone who deals so much in logic such as yours.
But there is one thing I would like you to observe:
"If you lie to your mother or your family about something and they believed you without doubt, does it not happen that as time goes on, you too start to believe in your own lie while it remains uncheck?"
The same thing goes with someone whose higher consciousness have arrived at a level of understanding beyond normal. With magical experiences that he himself cannot explain, the respect of the normal people who listen to him can make all of his encounters become true even if they did not experienced it.
God was portrayed to humankind as someone sitted on the throne in white robe with long hair and beard shaping and making molds out of everything He creates. What if He is not how we have conceived of Him? What if He is us combined all together continuously gyrating spirally in the cycle birth and death in order to know and understand what life really is?