Is the Trinity doctrine false and baptism necessary for salvation?

Question

I'm a member of the Church of Christ and I believe the Trinity doctrine is a man-made invention, and that baptism is necessary for salvation (according to Mark 16:16,Acts 2:38, and Romans 6:1-7). Does anyone else have suspicions regarding majority of churches' teachings today?

Answer 1

The Bible distinctly describes God in three aspects, Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, as stated by Jesus himself. Trinity or whatever term people use to describe it, it's a Biblical fact.

Baptism is an outward symbolic statement of what has happened to you on the inside when you invite Jesus into your life and you are born again. If there is a scripture that defines a person being in danger of hell for not being baptized, I'm not aware of it.

Evidence of baptism not being defined as a law to be "saved" is brought forth when the thief on the cross asked Jesus to remember him as Jesus entered into his kingdom. Jesus told the thief they'd be together in paradise. The thief was of course, not baptized.

Answer 2

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:7)

There are many verses that show the members of the "Godhead". This is just one.

Another is at the baptism of Christ. You see all three persons listed. The Son is Jesus; the Spirit descends like a dove; and the voice of the Father comes from heaven. (Matthew 3:16-17)

In John 1, Jesus is called "the Word" that "became flesh and dwelt amoung us". This "Word was with God and the Word was God".

In Genesis 1, the persons of God can be seen speaking among themselves.

"God created the heavens and earth". (Gen. 1:1) Jesus is also credited with the creation of all things, therefore Jesus is God. (John 1:3)

Jesus acknowledged the other persons of the Godhead. Examples: Jesus said he would send the Spirit to the Apostles. Jesus prayed to the Father.

There is abundant evidence of the persons of the Godhead.

As for baptism, you seem to have a correct understanding.

Baptism places one "into Christ" (Romans 6:3-4, Gal. 3:27) and into contact with his death (Romans 6:3-4, Col. 2:12) where Christ shed and offered his saving blood. Baptism "saves" (1 Peter 3:21) and washes away sins (Acts 22:16) by bringing us into contact with Christ at His death.

Jesus said, "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved." (Mark 16:16)

Many today say that one believes, is saved, and then he should be baptized. This is not the same thing Jesus said. It is not in the same order.

If Jesus had meant, "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved" what would he have said?

I believe he said what he meant and meant what he said. I believe Jesus! "He that believes not shall be condemned." (Mark 16:16)

Back to the prior subject, one of the places where Jesus is recorded to instruct baptism, He said it is “in the name of (by the authority of) the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:18-20)

How can you believe Jesus about baptism, but not about the trinity?

(P.S. I am also a member of the Church of Christ. I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They together are the one true God!)

Answer 3

of course there is: TRINITY interior the BIBLE One God: a million Tim 2:5, Deut 4:35, 6:4, Isa 40 3:10-11: Plurality of one God: Gen a million:26, 3:22, 11:7, Isa 6:8. Isa 9:6 shows the distinctive persons of God as Father, Son, and Counsellor (aka Comforter, which Jesus pronounced he could deliver to his disciples John 15:26) the father is God Isa 6:3 ,a million Cor 8:6, John 17:a million-3, II Cor a million:3, Philippians 2:11, Col a million:3, I Peter a million:2, Matt 6:8, 7:21, Gal a million:a million The Son is God Jn 12:40-one, 5:18, 20:28, a million:a million-14, 9:35-3, Titus 2:13, Rom 9:5, II puppy a million:a million, Col 2:9, Heb a million:8-10, Rev a million:8,18, Is 7:14, 40 5:21-22 Mic 5:2, Matt a million:23 The Spirit is God John sixteen:13, Heb 9:14, Acts 5:3-4, II Cor 3:17, John 15:26 Who raised Jesus from the lifeless: Father Rom 6:4, Acts 3:26, I Thes a million:10 Son John 2:19-21, 10:17-18 Spirit Rom 8:11 God Heb 13:20, Acts 13:30, 17:31 who's God? Father Eph 4:6 Son Tit 2:13, John a million:a million, 20:28, 9:35-37 Spirit Gen a million:2, playstation 104:30 God Gen a million:a million, Heb 11:3 Who saves guy? Father a million puppy a million:3 Son John 5:21, 4:14 Spirit John 3:6, Tit 3:5 God a million John 3:9 Who justifies guy? Father Jer 23:6, II Cor 5:19 Son Rom 5:9, 10:4, II Cor 5:19,21 Spirit I Cor 6:11, Gal 5:5 God Rom 4:6, 9:33 Who sanctifies guy? Father Jude a million Son Tit 2:14 Spirit I puppy a million:2 God Ex 31:13 persons of God do: Of the father, by the Son, interior the process the Spirit a million Cor:8:6, John 15:26

Answer 4

Through out the History itself proved that Catholic and Orthodox Church preaches unbiblical teachings.

This is why many who defend the Trinity Theory quote the teachings and philosophies of men like Plato,Theophilus, Augustine, Tertullian, Cyprian and the Pope.

If the Trinity God doctrine were really taught by the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles, it wouldnt have taken two councils (Council of Nicaea & Council of Constantinople) and many years to formulate this doctrine.

Keep in mind both members of councils where not apostles and not even a prophets .All Scriptures is God-breathed but what about the Trinity doctrine made by members of Council of Nicaea and Council of Constantinople?

COMET,

The True Original Church was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, but the Catholic Church changed the mode of Baptism from Jesus's name to the titles Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Answer 5

Yes you have to be careful about doctrines and get into the Bible yourself. The Bible does not mention "The Trinity". This is man made. However, Jesus does say "I and the Father are one" John 10:30. And then the Spirit "will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears" John 16:13. So I guess I do believe in it because I do believe God, Jesus and the Spirit are all connected and together. But I never use the term Trinity because I don't see it in the Bible.

Yes, baptism is important and so is faith. You need both scriptually. It seems that people throughout history have a tendency to grab onto some scriptures and forget others regarding this. During the middle ages baptism was emphasized SOO MUCH that Charlemagne forced men to get baptized after he defeated them in battle. And babies who can't even have faith yet were being baptized. Because people thought it was ALL ABOUT BAPTISM and forgot faith.

Now there is a backlash against this, yet they only go the other extreme. Now you see so many churches that exphasize ONLY FAITH. They have people pray Jesus into their heart and say baptism means nothing. There is not a single biblical example of anyone ever praying Jesus into their heart. Romans 6 (about Baptism) and Romans 10 which stresses faith are BOTH scriptures. Sorry I got so long winded. All the best.

Answer 6

The word "trinity" is a man made term to DEFINE how the one God exists in three distinct persons or manifestations. Scripture clearly supports this logic in the prescription for baptism Matt. 28 "In the name of the Father, and Son, and holy Spirit..." Scripturally baptism is necessary for salvation. There are a lot of spurious teachings...where does one begin? Fortunately, the trinity doctrine is not one of them. Try the once saved, always saved or rapture doctrines.

Leave it to a oneness person to use trinitarian quotes to validate Sabellianism. Read John 17:5 Jn 1:1-3 Phil 2:5-11 Heb 1:3...the Didache, St. Ignatius of Antioch, Papias, St. Polycarp, St. Iraeneus of Lyon...WITHOUT your brainwashing pastor taking it out of context for you.

Answer 7

I believe Jesus is God but I dont believe in the trinity, it was not taught by the early church fathers and was firmly established in the 4th century, the Egyptians also beleive in a Trinity of their God in the same way that Trinitarians today believed. God is not three in One, God is only One with many manifestations, he is not limited to three. Genesis 1: 26, John 1: 1, Hebrews 1: 8-10, Matthew 28: 19 etc, are not proofs of the Trinity, Even Trinitarian Scholars admit that this scriptures are commonly misused by Trinitarians trying to prove the Trinity.

The deity of Jesus Christ is the Father, the flesh of Jesus is the Son, flesh is distinct from the spirit, God the Father is the only God who put on flesh, This is why Jesus is God and not because their are three seperate persons in heaven, 1 John 5: 7-8 was an addition to the bible.

Baptism is deffinently nessasary for salvation, Paul said "we are buried with Jesus", and Act 4: 12 tells us that "their is no other name under heaven, given among men whereby we must be saved". The Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ but many fail to see it, Titles don't have any power and when you baptise in Jesus name, you are not denying the Father and Holy Ghost becaue they are all One and the Same person. People just need to study history.

Hermas a Prophet of Rome (100 A.D. Romans 16: 14)
Wrote: "They needed, to come up through water in order to be made , for otherwise they could not enter the Kingdom of God unless they set aside the deadness of their former life. So even those who had falen asleep recieved the seal of the Son of God and entered into the Kingdom of God. For before he bears the NAME OF THE SON OF GOD; the man is dead and whenever he revcieved the seal he sets aside the deadness and receives life. So the water is the seal. Therefore they go down into the water dead and they come up alive"
Hermas believed in water baptism as nessasary and it saved.
EARLY CHURCH FATHER QUOTES:
Ireneaus (disiple of John)
wrote: "God the Creator...& to demonstrate that there is nothing above him or After him... He is the only God, the only Lord, the Only Creator, the Only Father, alone containing all things and himself comanding all things into exsistance. For how can there be any other FULNESS, or principle, or power, or God above him? God then pleroma (Fulness) of all these, should contain all things in his immensity and whould be contained by no one? But if their is anything beyond him, he is not the Fulness of all, nor does he contain all"

Ireneaus
wrote: "scripture tells us in the book of Genesis that me made all things connected with his world by his word. David also expresses the same truth when he says "For he spoke, and they were made; he commanded and they were created." "

Ireneaus
wrote:"The Prophets & Apostles confess the Father & Son; but naming NO OTHER God & no other Lord: and the Lord himself handing down to his disiples, that he the Father, is the Only God and Lord who alone is the ruler of all, it is incumbent on us that we follow".
Notice that they didn't confess the Holy Spirit as God, this is because they didnt see it as a seperate person but they saw it as the spirit of the Father, Ireneaus also pointed out that Jesus is the Father because he said the Father is the only God, then he said Jesus is God, the Father is in the body of jesus according tot he bible.

Clement of Rome (90-100 A.D. Friend of Paul the apostle Phil 4: 3)
Believed the Son IS the Holy Spirit
He wrote: "If we say that...the Spirit is Christ, then he who does violence to the Church does violence to Christ. Such a man will not share in the Spirit, which is the Christ. This flesh is able to recieve so great a life and immortality because the Holy Spirit is closely Joined to it..." Clement calls the Spirit "Christ" and then Identifies this spirit as the "Holy Spirit ".

Hermas a Prophet (100 A.D. Friend of Paul in Romans 16: 14) Believe the Holy Spirit IS the Son/ One person
He wrote: "The angel of repentence, he came to me and said to me, i want to show you what the Holy spirit, which Spoke with you in the form of the Church, showed you; for that Spirit is the Son of God."
Jack N. Sparks, (A Trinitarian) wrote: "You wouldn't call Hermas a precise theologian. His terminology in speaking of the Son and Holy Spirit is so confusing that he seems to identify the two as the same person." This Trinitarian admits that the Hermas was not a Trinitarian and is confused because he though the early church belief was Trinitarian, WRONG.
If Hermas and Clement were friends of Paul the Apostle and they taught Oneness (God is One person) then Paul must have been Oneness as well and didn't know about any so-called Trinity. Paul was not a Trinitarian.

Answer 8

So you can go to heaven because someone splashes water on you? I never got that. What makes them any better than you if God or Jesus loves us all the same. If I had a whole brood of children I wouldn't love one of them less because they didn't take a bath. (I may not wish to sit next to them until they do, but I'm still gonna let them in the house right?) I am suspicious of all the churches teachings, except the thing abou tnot throwing stones from a glass house. Which is really interesting because I didn't know glass was a huge thing 2000 years ago. Always learning something new.

Answer 9

To djmantx. You could not be more wrong. You are assuming that Moses account of sin entering the world through the disobedience of Adam and Eve is true. Jesus gave us a completely different account of these events in The Apocryphon of John. If you say that Jesus is God, then you are calling Him a liar. The early church substituted a lie for the truth and you are perpetuating it.

Answer 10

You might want to start with the Bible. It's a collection of books determined by Trinitarians. If they were so far off on that, then you certainly can't trust them to determine the NT. If, on the other hand, you think that you should keep the NT, then you will have to rethink any simplistic division of "man-made" vs. "scriptural" doctrine.

Rather than mounting a biblical defense of the Trinity, I think that's enough to chew on. You're rejecting the Trinity using a Trinitarian anthology of books as your source. That's not too terribly sound a foundation.