Why aren't these Catholic traditions found in the 1st century Church?

Question

1. Priests offering sacrifices for sins.

2. Indulgences remitting sin's punishment.

3. Church leaders forbidden to marry.

4. Infallible men.

Meg here,

Peter was married. Was the Paul married? The Bible never says whether Paul was married or not.

James O,

voluntary celibacy was unknown among the Jewish men of Jesus' time. Nice try.

Jesus's own commitment and example not to be married mention in Matthew 19:10-12. In fact, the rationale for the Roman church's later view that priests should not be married partially stems from the view that Jesus was not married.

Answer 1

It's like politics--you make up the laws as the years go by--:]

Answer 2

1. Priest Offering sacrifices for sins was a common practice during the time of The Patriarchs and Prophets. It was God who instructed them to do so for His people.

2. Indulgence has no effect for the remission of sins. Remission of sins can only be possible if sa person offers a flawles sacrifice which will be administered by a priest in ancient days. These sacrifices is the shadow of the things to come which symbolizes Jesus.
3. Church leaders are forbidden to marry for Caholic but it is not so during the time of Abraham up to the time of Jesus. It was only instituted after the daeth of the apostles which some church leaders believed that Paul the Apostle is not married and become the first pope.
4. Infallible men? There is no such in the bible, and it was not the doctrine of Christianity. If there is somebody claiming to be infallible he is a liar. This person doesn't need Jesus and is not waiting for His second coming. Jesus will come for the sinners not for infallible men.

Answer 3

The Catholic Church teaches that there is only one sacrifice for sin: the unrepeatable Sacrifice of jesus death and rising. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is a showing forth of that sacrifice "Do this in anamnesis(living memorial)of Me" The Didache of the 1st cent describes the Euch as an offering

There are Catholic priests in good standing who are married and not just in the
Eastern Rites. Jesus was celibate and recommended it(Matt 19:12) Some Widows took vows of celibacy(1 Tim 5:9-12)

Acts15:28 The Apostles speak with the voice of the Holy Spirit Who is infallible.An infallible Bible without infallible tradition and Church will not be functionally infallible...just look at the history of bible interpretation and all the conflicting readings of the same Bible passages

Answer 4

Men are not infallible only the teachings of the Pope in his position as Pope. "Thou art Peter (Rock) and upon this rock I shall build my Church AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST HER" THIS POINTS TO THE INFALLIBILITY OF THE POPE WHEN HE IS DECLARING DOCTRINE.

When Jesus and the Apostles were in the upper room for the Last Supper he said " Do this in remembrance of me" This is HIS sacrifice that the priest brings forward as standing in his place. The word used in Greek for remembrance even means a bringing forward so it is Jesus sacrificed that is offered throughout time. The same sacrifice and not a new one.

St. Paul tells people that it is better if they are not married but most of this is a Tradition that has evolved as an understanding of the priesthood has come down through the ages. Queen Esther was given into the care of the King's Eunuchs for care--they prefigured the priesthood. Why does everyone have so much trouble with the priesthood's celibacy? His Kingdom is not of this World so why do you judge it by this World's standards. If the Pope wanted to change this he could because it is not a dyed in the wool deal but, just about every Pastor from other religions have said that the Catholics have the right of it because it is near impossible to keep a Church and your wife and children all happy with the amount of time you have. Inevitably one feels shorted.

Answer 5

For one, in the first century most of the faithful of the doctrines of Jesus were Jewish converts, NOT of a religion yet called "Catholic." Ignatius at Antioch, coined the name "catholic" which means "universal" for the faithful of Jesus and did not have "ties" to a religion that calls itself catholic as we do today when Paul took on authority from Peter. He did so only because Peter felt "gentiles' should not be taught the messge as he put it only Jews were worthy of. Paul did not feel that way. Paul felt that even gentiles deserved the message of salvation Jesus taught.........

Answer 6

All of these traditions were founded by Constantine.
For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine “legalized” Christianity at the Edict of Milan in A.D. 313. Later, in A.D. 325, Constantine called together the Council of Nicea, in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith, but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine promoted was a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism.

Constantine found that with the Roman Empire being so vast, expansive, and diverse – not everyone would agree to forsake their religious beliefs and instead embrace Christianity. So, Constantine allowed, and even promoted, the “Christianization” of pagan beliefs. Completely pagan and utterly unbiblical beliefs were given new “Christian” identities.

Answer 7

+ 1. Catholic priests do not offer sacrifices for sins. The sacrifice of Jesus Christ was the last and perfect sacrifice.

"Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures" (1 Cor 15:3).

+ 2. Indulgences do not remit punishment for sins. The make the process of purgation easier.

To discuss indulgences, first we have to talk about Purgation (or Purgatory).

Are you perfect now? Most people would say no.

Will you be perfect in heaven? Most people believe yes.

Purgatory (or purgation) is the process of God's love changing our imperfect selves into perfect beings. Depending on the amount of change needed by different people this can be an easy or slightly harder process.

Everyone in purgatory is on their way to heaven. I don't think Mother Teresa of Calcutta had a very hard time of it.

The concept of an indulgence is that a person can do acts of penance now on earth to make purgation easier.

Penance is internally turning one's heart toward God and away from sin in hope in divine mercy and externally by fasting, prayer, and almsgiving.

A corruption grew in the Church many years ago where rich people would give enough alms (money to the Church) to essentially buy an easy way to heaven. This was one of Martin Luther's protests (hence Protestants) and shortly thereafter the Catholic Church cleaned up this practice.

In 1567 Pope Pius V canceled all grants of indulgences involving any fees or other financial transactions.

But remember because everyone in purgatory is already on their way to heaven, indulgences do not get you into heaven. They just make purgation easier.

I guess if you did not believe in purgatory then there would be no reason to worry about indulgences.

+ 3. Church leaders were encouraged to not to marry by Jesus and Paul.

The celibate clergy did not come into full bloom until about 1000 A.D. There were many married priests, bishops, and popes before this time.

Priests, religious brothers and religious sisters (nuns) as part of their vocation choose not to marry following:
+ The practice recommended in the Bible
+ The example of Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, and the Apostle Paul.

+++ Scripture +++

+ In Matthew 19:12, Jesus says, "Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it."

+ In Matthew 19:29, Jesus says, "And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times more, and will inherit eternal life."

+ Matthew 22:30 - Jesus explains, "At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven."

+ In 1 Corinthians 7:1, Paul writes, "It is a good thing for a man not to touch a woman."

+ Then in 1 Corinthians 7:7, Paul says, "Indeed, I wish everyone to be as I am."

+ In 1 Corinthians 7:27, Paul writes, "Are you free of a wife? Then do not look for a wife."

+ In 1 Corinthians 7:32-33, Paul teaches, "I should like you to be free of anxieties. An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord. But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife." And in verse 38, "So then, the one who marries his virgin does well; the one who does not marry her will do better."

Paul recommends celibacy for full time ministers in the Church so that they are able to focus entirely upon God and building up His kingdom. He “who refrains from marriage will do better.”

See also 1 Timothy 5:9-12, 2 Timothy 2:3-4, Revevation 14:4, Isaiah 56:3-7, and Jeremiah 16:1-4.

+++ Scriptural Examples +++

Biblical role models of a celibate clergy came from John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Apostle Paul.

John the Baptist and Jesus are both believed to have been celibate for their entire lives. Some scholars believe that the example of the Essenes influenced either or both Jesus and John the Baptist in their celibacy.

WWJD? What would Jesus do? Jesus did not marry.

The Apostle Paul is explicit about his celibacy (see 1 Cor. 7). There is also evidence in the gospel of Matthew for the practice of celibacy among at least some early Christians, in the famous passage about becoming “eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 19:12).

The concept took many twists and turns over the years and will probably take a few more before Christ returns in glory.

A priest is "married" to the Church. Some people think that a priest who takes his duties seriously cannot take proper care of a wife and family. "A man cannot serve two masters."

+ 4. Infallibility is base on the words of Jesus Christ.

The Catholic Church teaches that the Pope is infallible at closely defined times.

The Pope is only infallible when he, in union with the body of bishops, solemnly teaches that a doctrine as true.

This comes from the words of Jesus to Peter (the first Pope) and the Apostles (the first bishops), "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" (Matthew 18:18) and "He who hears you hears me" (Luke 10:16).

At all other times the Pope can be just as wrong or sinful as you and me and be in need of forgiveness.

For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 891: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p4.htm#891 and http://www.catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallibility.asp

+ With love in Christ.

Answer 8

1.Christ was the final sacrifice. He gave them the power to forgive sins by :"Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them"

2.whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. Covers a lot of ground.

3. Matthew 19

12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it.25 Now concerning virgins, I have no commandment of the Lord; but I give counsel, as having obtained mercy of the Lord, to be faithful.

Corinthians
26 I think therefore that this is good for the present necessity, that it is good for a man so to be. 27 Art thou bound to a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. 28 But if thou take a wife, thou hast not sinned. And if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned: nevertheless, such shall have tribulation of the flesh. But I spare you. 29 This therefore I say, brethren; the time is short; it remaineth, that they also who have wives, be as if they had none; 30 And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as if they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;

4. Papal infallibility only applies to certain seldom used instances. We do not believe the Pope is perfect.

Answer 9

>>Church leaders forbidden to marry.<<

Please show me evidence of men marrying after ordination in the early Church.

>>Peter was married.<<

Yes, I know Peter was married. The Catholic Church ordains married men. That is different than ordained men marrying.

Answer 10

1) Priests don't "offer sacrifices for sin." There is only one Sacrifice for sin, and that is the atoning death of Christ on the Cross. When the priest says Mass, he is remembering the death of Christ through the Eucharist, just as Jesus Himself commanded us to do:

1Corinthians 11:23-26 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

These are the exact words used in the Consecration of the elements -- no mention of sacrifice "for sin" anywhere.

2) Sin has always had consequences. The Book of Macabees talks about offering sacrifices for the dead in order that they may be forgiven of sins. The Catholic church accepts that 1st and 2nd Macabees are legitimately part of Scripture. They predate the Christian era, so they were in effect in the early days of the church.

3) St. Paul himself talks about remaining unmarried and wishing that all were as he was:

1Corinthians 7:7-8 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.

Unmarried people are anxious about the things of the Lord, as Paul says. So celibacy has been preached since the early days of the church.

4) The Pope is only 'infallable' when he speaks 'ex cathedra,' that is, from the Chair of Peter. The Chair of Peter is an ancient term, referring to the official view of the Church. Christ gave Peter (and by extension, his successors) the keys to the Kingdom:

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

If the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church, the Pope obviously must guide it according to the will of Christ. So Peter and those who came after him clearly must obey Christ and teach the truth when they speak in an official capacity.