Question on usage of "seed" in Isaiah in Hebrew bible?

Question

Hi guys. I had a question on the term "zera sheqer" used in Isaiah 57:4 which I've seen translated commonly as "seed of falsehood" (KJV and others) and alternative as "offspring of liars" (NIV) which I have been told is the correct understanding.

This has confused me because zera from what I understand always refers to something physical and when used in reference to a person such as Israel in this case, it is the offspring of physical people. Looking at the Hebrew lexicon, it tells me that sheqer usually means falsehood, false, lie, lies, and one case in Proverbs, liar. The word for liars however is shakran and is not used here.

So my question is, how do you derive "liars" from sheqer and how do you know this is the correct meaning instead of "offspring of falsehood" or "offspring of lies" which is what the word "sheqer" seems to suggest. Was Isaiah referring to Israel as people descended from liars or metaphorically as a product of falsehood?

Thanks!

Answer 1

Hey There.

So I'm an observant Jew who speaks fluent Hebrew and has studied much of the Bible (Old Testament, and as a Jew I don't believe the New Testament has any authentication) and in Hebrew the root word for falsehood, lies, and un-truth are the Hebrew letters SHIN KUF REISH or SHEQER. Unlike in English where liar and flashed have no similar root letters. So the phrase ZEREH SHEQER to be translated to mean either "liar" or "falsehood" wouldn't be incorrect.

As far as what "ZEREH SHEQUER" is referring to read the passages above it. Isiah was talking to the offspring of evil-doers not the children of Israel over here. Here's the quote:

3 But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the harlot.

4 Against whom do ye sport yourselves? Against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? Are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood,

5 Ye that inflame yourselves among the terebinths, under every leafy tree; that slay the children in the valleys, under the clefts of the rocks?

And another thing, this had, has and never will have anything to do with jesus. Nothing in any of the Old Testament has anything to do with him. ever.

Answer 2

There should be a way to look up multiple usages of a word in Hebrew. Depends on the context. This is where some basic exegesis comes into play.

I'm sure the seed here refers to Jesus Christ

Answer 3

Isaiah 53 is talking about the sinless messiah-the seed-and Psalm 22 says a seed shall serve him!

when we twist the bible we have problems -as follows too
The life records prove Jesus came and died-I doubt there is execution records on file-yet it is possible yet take it a step further-Isaiah did more than mention the death of Jesus the Messiah-He recorded it

Isaiah 52:13-53:12, and also said Jesus would be God almighty- Isaiah 9:6 "Unto us will be born a child, a Son is given, and he will be almighty God and the prince of peace."

of course some will say that the Jewish people who reject Jesus put this into their Jewish Hebrew Scriptures so it is not true-why would those that reject Jesus put this in and then leave it there still today? be real

what is the advantage of being a member of Isalm to reject the Messiah Jesus-yet claim to believe him?
you become a Muslim by saying you believe Jesus and then rejecting him.
some examples=Jesus says to love your enemies and do good to them and share the gospel. those in lust-even mohamad who married a 9 year old little girl Aysha at 40 years old-the results leads to taking viginity and also violence sometimes too=is it any wonder-as Muslims on the other hand=

the sunni's murdering the Shiites-and vica versa -since the bombing of the Golden Mosque January 2006 and each other blowing up each others mosques and dragging their leaders out into the street and cold blooded murdering them.

cold blooded murderers? should we deny the Messiah Jesus teaching to care about others or to leave Iraq and let the terrorists take over the country with their billions in oil to support their terrorism throughout the world?
this is what one man here said to my question-a muslim who is supposed to listent to Jesus according to his own religion=

in regards to a muslim who I asked about the messiah Jesus helping one in their life-he who says as Islam says to believe in Jesus-wrote this =
Dentist_Member since: April 21, 2007
" I've never had a Prophet/slave/messenger of God talk to me."

well Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice and follow me." John 10

the problem is we have to do what the good shepherd Messiah Jesus says "I love you repent quickly from your sin (even one lie), Behold I knock on your heart door if you hear my voice and opent he door, I will come in and begin a fellowship with you and you with me, if you repent and ask me in." Revelation 1:1, 3;19&20 and chapters 19-22 about the joy of heaven in salvation, and the agony of hell weeping forever for those that refuse the voice of Messiah Jesus.

As a Jew-I come to messiah from the prophecies Isaiah 52:13-53:12 as I gave this man but he refused to listen- "He will lay down his life as a lamb and make atonement for our sins." will we listen?
LET JESUS HELP YOU, REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND BE NOT ONE OF THOSE SPOKEN OF -IN THE LAST DAYS MANY WILL SPEAK EVIL OF THEIR RULERS AND CALL GOOD BAD AND BAD GOOD.
why not make good music like Amazing grace sung of the one Messiah Jesus thanks

that is how you become true to God in the Bible and become His seed too David

Answer 4

I think your best bet would be to join the Biblical Hebrew mail list at http://www.ibiblio.org/bhebrew/

These mail lists are superb. You have some of the finest scholars available to answer your questions.

Answer 5

Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. ---- Jesus told the Jews, who claimed they were of Abraham, that they were of their father Satan. ---- John 8:44

Jesus was himself a Jew and he was the Messiah for the Jews. Jesus, however, is very clear as to the status of the fellow Jews who rejected him……

Jesus told the rebellious Jews, who claimed they were of Abraham, that they were NOT OF ABRAHAM because of their constant disobedience.

Jesus told the Jews who did not believe in him that they were MURDERERS.

Jesus told the Jews who did not believe in him that they were LIARS AND DECEIVERS.

Jews called the Jews who argued with him and rejected him the “Spawn of Satan”.

--------------------
Jesus compares the unbelieving Jews with the serpent devil

"Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?" (Matthew 23:33)

--------------
Synagogues Of Satan

"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." (Revelation 2:9)

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee." (Revelation 3:9)

Here Jesus says the real Jews are his followers and the disbelievers are NOT THE REAL JEWS.

Jesus also promises the believers, who are now called CHRISTIANS, that the disbelievers, who are now called JEWS, will always be under their feet as a symbol that Jesus Loves THEM.

-------------
“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves." -- Matthew 10:16

Jesus calls the Jews who did not believe in him "WOLVES" and the Jews who did believe in him as "SHEEP". The believers should become as wise, sneaky and deceiving as the generation of Serpents/vipers otherwise they will not survive the onslaught from the disbelieving Jews ?

Have the wolves deceived the Sheep to such an extent that they now believe the very same people whom Jesus called Vipers and the Spawn of Satan are “GODS CHOSEN PEOPLE” ?

Acutally they were the “chosen people” before they rejected Jesus and a curse was put on them. God shifted the prophethood out of them and established a new “Jerusalem”(Holy city of peace) also.

“By deception thou shalt do war”

Instead of the disbelieving jews worshipping at the feet of the Christians, the Christians are worshipping at the feet of the “Chosen People” whom Jesus called the Spawn of Satan ?

This is the bible, read it for yourself.

What do you think ?

///

Answer 6

Good question...I will watch for answers.