If you strip away claims of divinity and miracles, what becomes of Jesus?

Question

If you assume that claims of divinity and miracles were foisted on the memory of Jesus decades after his death by men who had a vested interest in deifying him, what do the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) reveal?

If you replace the words "God" and "Father" with the word "Love" do you find wisdom worthy of the name?

Can we say Jesus was a wise and loving man who tried to help his people find the power of Love that resided in their hearts?

Was he crucified because he came so close to freeing his people of the Fear that held them under the sway of the powerful who ruled?

I'll keep this question open for the week, so that you might have a chance to read the gospels in this way and return to answer.

See for yourself if what I say is true.

Answer 1

Assuming Jesus was real, which I think it's adequately documented that he was, yes he seemed like a stellar guy and yes if everyone was as humble, charitable and forgiving as Jesus supposedly was then this place would be a whole lot nicer to live in. It doesn't change the fact that there's no evidence to support the notion of Hell or Heaven or God.

Answer 2

What you are suggesting is, in fact, pretty much the conclusion I came to many years ago. And I am convinced that if the man, and I mean very precisely, man, Yashua bin Jusef, was what I think he was, then he would be the first to agree, as I have said and written many, many times, that it is the message, not the messenger, to which we should pay attention.

I also urge everyone with an interest in this subject to pay attention not just to the rather contrived, so-called 'Synoptic' Gospels, but to the broad spread of materials now available to us thanks to the Nag Hammadi and Qumran ( Dead Sea Scrolls ) finds.

Embarrassing though this may be for the mainstream 'Christian' churches, I believe that the pure 'Teachings' of the 'Teacher of Righteousness' come to the fore, and by this I do not imply that they are one and the same, merely that, if the message is correct, then, to all intents and purposes, they could be.

With regard to the Crucifixion, I am not convinced that that did happen in the way that mostn people have interpreted it. I have referred several times to the fact that, according to the 'official' line, a prisoner was released in accordance with the Passover custom, and that that prisoner was said to have been called 'Jesus Barabbas', that is, Yashua bar ( son of ) Abbas ( the Father, i.e. 'God' ). If this person was released, then who was crucified ?

The real answer is that it really doesn't matter, again it is the message which carries the weight. What has been made of 'Christianity' is a 'Death' cult, when according to the message it should be a 'Life' cult, a message of 'Love'.

What you say is true, in my opinion.

Answer 3

Why would you want to strip away claims of divinity and miracles?
Why replace words in the Gospels?
Why assume men deified him?
you could try to simply 'believe in order to understand'
May God Bless You and Open your Ears and Eyes to the Truth.

Answer 4

Why did Matthew, Mark, Luke, and especially John have a "vested interest" in deifying him? What did they possibly have to gain? Most of those who preached the divinity of Jesus suffered bloody, gruesome death for doing so. For refusing to renounce their claim that Jesus was God the Son. Either they were idiots with a death wish, or they believed what they said enough to stake their lives on it.

Jewish authors record that the Jewish religious leadership had him crucified, not the "powerful who ruled." The state power of the time was Rome. And Rome had no immediate interest in Him. Pontius Pilate didn't even want to be bothered with executing Him as an enemy to Rome.

Sure if you replace the words "God" and "Father" with the word "Love" it is almost seamless. 1 and 2 John talk about God as a God of Love. John even says "God IS Love." Does that mean he thought of God as merely an emotion or an idea? Hardly. John also admonished believers to live in obedience to God. Not simply some wishy-washy idea.

Jesus repeatedly referred to men's natural condition as "evil." He never told anyone to dig for the power of love that was within them; He told them the love of God was greater than man's love. He encouraged them to appeal to a love greater and higher than what they had within them.

I suggest these titles: "Jesus Christ: Man or Myth?" by E.M. Blaiklock, and also "The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel, a former atheist. They present a very evidentiary case for the foundations of the Christian faith, as understood today.

Answer 5

The main thing in this discussion that no one can deny is the fact that people are still talking about Jesus 2000+ years after the fact. Religions may come and go and the war between good and evil will always persist but how about this. Do you ever hear people mention Moses or David in the same regards as you hear them speak about Jesus? Both Moses and David held religious power and prestige in biblical times, but what happened to cause people to stop holding focus on them? Jesus is the word made flesh and both theologies and non-believers alike will continue to talk and debate for years and years to come.

Answer 6

If you replace all those words and read the Gospel with that understanding, then you have a complete mad man.

Jesus did not just teach us a good way to live, he also called himself the son of God several times. So either was a liar and trying to trick us all into watching him get killed, a maniac who could have just as easily said he was a carrot , or he really was the son of God.

Answer 7

If you strip U.S. History books of racism and wars, does it become a fluffy book about how wonderful America is?

Maybe...but it also becomes something untrue. The same would be said of the gospels...we make them into something they were never meant to be and something false.

By the way, I would argue that Matthew, Mark and Luke had no vested interested in deifying God. Their "vested interest" led them to persecution, beatings and death. They didn't seem to gain much this, did they?

Answer 8

Matthew 7:21-23- he's only asserting we ought to do his Father's will. he's not denying divinity. Matthew 5:17-19- specific, he got here to fulfill the regulation, so what? Luke 18:19- No the place grew to become into Jesus asserting "i'm no longer sturdy" or "i'm no longer God". He grew to become into asserting "If i'm sturdy, and God is powerful,what does that inform you?" Mark 12:29, Matthew 22:37, Luke 10:27- It by no potential says "So worship him". You further that your self. And the subsequent verses are in basic terms asserting "Love the Lord your God". John 5:30- the respond is that Jesus is the two God and guy in one person. This doctrine is observed as the hypostatic union. As a guy, Jesus grew to become into under the regulation and grew to become into obligated to maintain the regulation (Gal. 4:4). In His humbled state of being under the angels (Heb. 2:9), Jesus grew to become into cooperating with the restrictions of being a guy (Phil. 2:5-8). hence, He grew to become into in finished subjection to the father so as that He might fulfill the regulation and be the severe priest sacrifice for our sins (Heb. 5:10). "You have been all born muslims yet under the impression of your societies deviated from the authentic course. Revert to islam. Allah the almighty will forgive all your previous sins. return to Islam earlier it somewhat is too late." Sorry, i grew to become into by no potential a Muslim. Neither grew to become into Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, Jeremiah, ,and so on nor John the Baptist and surely, the Lord Jesus Christ grew to become into no longer. in case you think of Jesus isn't God examine right here verses: John a million:a million, John a million:3, Revelation a million:8, Revelation a million:17, John 8:fifty 8, Luke 6:5, Mark 2:28, Matthew 12:8, John 5:23, John 8:24, Matthew 9:6, Matthew 13:40-one, Matthew sixteen:27, Hebrews a million:8-10, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Matthew 24:27, Matthew 25:31, Mark 2:10, Mark 8:38, Mark 13:26, Mark 14:sixty two, Luke 9:26, Daniel 7:13-14, Luke 17:24, Luke 21:27, Luke 22:sixty 9, Acts 7:fifty six, Hebrews a million:3, Hebrews 13:8, a million John 4:14, II Peter 3:18 , II Peter a million:a million , John 4:40 two, Titus a million:4, Luke 2:11, Acts 4:12, 2 Timothy 2:10 , Hebrews 2:10, Hebrews 5:9, Colossians a million:sixteen, Mark 2:5, Titus 2:13-14, John 10:30, John 14:9-11, John 14:6, a million John 5:7, Acts 2:27, Acts 3:13-14, Matthew 9:18, Hebrews a million:6, John 20:28, John 17:5, Matthew 8:sixteen, John 5:22, John a million:4 , and John 5:21.

Answer 9

We can try not talk about Jesus divinty but that does not change the fact that he IS THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION BY GOD as stated at rev.1:1; 3:14 and as such "He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation." and even God wanted him to have Glory as stated at John 17:5 when Jesus said "Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that i had alongside you before the world was." other scriptures are john 6:62 and john 8:58. Yet Jesus said that it is Jehovah your God you must worship and it is to him ALONE you must render sacred service-Matthew 4:10

Answer 10

I'm with you in saying that the synoptics didn't have such a lofty agenda. His personality is still extremely atractive if seen from the perspective of someone who placed himself in the same line as that of the prophets from of old
However, I wouldn't bash what people did with Jesus a few centuries afterword, because it shows that God's revelation is an ongoing dialogue between human beings and the divine, with all the encounters and misencounters any dialogue entails. This is more important now that fundamentalisms (both Evangelical and Muslim) are on the rise. Both claim that revelation is cast in stone once and forever. Now wonder why terrorism follows suit.

Answer 11

The key word in your question is "claims".

It is recorded that he himself SAID he was the Son of God. Therefore he inherited "all that the Father hath" through "growing from grace to grace" and that included the universal intelligence, knowledge, wisdom, ie., power to create miracles. What is a miracle but just an act whose principles we do not yet understand.

Yes, Jesus helped us to find the power of love, but much, much more. He was the "Son of Man", the son of the Eternal Father who is the literal father of all our spirit bodies.

Jesus was crucified as the great proxy, the pashal lamb without blemish, for us so we too could return to the pressence of the Father through faith on Jesus the Messiah, repentance, and baptism (the early Christians never baptized an infant, but blessed them) by one who has literal authority, or "keys", to open the saving ordinances on earth, as did Peter.

He is the Jehovah of the Old Testament fulfilling the prophecies in Isaiah and elsewhere, thus his statement to his people, "Before Abraham, I AM." He is the God of Life...not death, having overcome it.

It is through him, our ONLY mediator with the Father, we approach the Father. He is as important to us as his message and his mission.

No, substituting the word "love" for "God" severs our literal child to father relationship with him. Augustine, a father of lies, did a great job of this with Hellenistic philosophy, erasing the physical body of Christ and robbing us of the character and personality of our Heavenly Father, thus our understanding of who we are and of our true relationship with them both.

Finally, your questions are leading, as you want to establish something philosophical beyond just receiving an answer. Hidden agenda? Unadulterated Christianity is not just another philosophy.