Catholics say that were the original Christians, but were they?

Question

As evidenced in the Scripture, we see that Paul wrote " to the Saints at Ephesus" and " to the Saints at Corinth" and " to the Saints are Philipi" etc etc. My question is this. How could these people have been catholics when everyone knows that in catholicism one must first die physically in order to be cannonized? Who really thinks that paul was writing to a bunch of deceased cannonized catholics when he adressed his letters....to the saints? Oh, and are any of you catholics reading this....saints? Because if youre not, then how could be of the originals, because they were saints? And I guess that since youre not a saint ( if youre not ) then when paul writes " to the saints" he isnt writing to you. Am I wrong on this?

Answer 1

No, Catholics were certainly not the original Christians. Paul is speaking to the anointed ones, they have nothing to do with Catholics, which did not come about until later...Catholics follow man-made doctrines and traditions, and deviate from the true Bible teaching.

2 Timothy 4:3 &4: "For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories."

1 John 4:1: "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world."

Acts 17:11: "Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni′ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so."

The way we know if we are being taught the truth is to check diligently and carefully, the Scriptures in the Bible. If if is not in the Bible, it is not the truth...always use Scripture to verify Scripture...and Jesus said...

John 17:3: "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."

Notice the word "AND"...those who teach the false doctrine of the trinity cannot be true Christians because they do not teach the truth.

Answer 2

The Catholic Church IS the original church founded by Christ. I will not quote scripture because this is not a scriptural question, although scripture can be used. This is a history question.

Protestants want to say the Church wasn't founded until the 4th century by Constantine. Before that, they claim Christianity was pure and untouched with the early churches. The Catholics got ahold of it in 400, corrupted it, and the Faith wasn't restored to its original purity until the Protestant Reformation of 1500. If you believe that, you're reading a history book written by Santa and his elves high on pot.

First, lets look at Protestantism. It is a protest against the authority of the Catholic Church. What is the result of Protestantism? This protest led to a break from the Church, Luther and Calvin among the first. Later, other breaks occurred, some from the Catholic Church, and others from Luther and Calvin, too. Later, again, more breaks. The centuries roll on and more and more breaks. What is going on here?

Simple. One person decided they didn't like what Luther was teaching, left, and started his own church. Another did the same to Calvin. Another did it to the guy who did it to Luther. Each person in this line broke away because of a difference in interpretation of the bible and/or some other personal/doctrinal reason. Today, we have over 54,000 different protestant denominations.

Does this match what Jesus intended? No.

Christ set down one Faith, one Church. He gave it to the Apostles, who spread the word and started new churches. New Christians learned the Faith from the churches, and CONFORMED themselves to the Faith. They were not free to interpret the Faith in their own way and teach their versions to others, like the protestants. If they did, it would not be the Faith.

One Faith, one Church.

Just by examining the logic and chronology of Christian history, you can see the original, the Roman Catholic Church.

God bless.

Answer 3

You are mixing up all saints with canonized saints.

The Catholic Church believes saints are people in heaven or on their way to heaven. All Christians dead and alive are saints.

The Catholic Church selects some of the most extraordinary examples, does in-depth research, and canonizes them.

Canonization is the solemn declaration by the Pope that a deceased member of the faithful may be proposed as a model and intercessor (not mediator) to the Christian faithful on the basis of the fact that the person lived a life of heroic virtue or remained faithful to God through martyrdom.

With love in Christ.

Answer 4

When they say "to the Saints at Ephesus / Corinth" in the Bible... they are meaning the Believers there... they wern't called Christians for a while, so that is what they called them. It's not saint as Catholics call saints now.

Personally I don't worship saints. God never once said it was OK, to make men into "demi-gods" (saints)...
St. Aelred (along with ALL of the other saints)... were HUMAN, not God - so yeah, they sin and make tons of mistakes. That is why I choose to follow the PERFECT God :) and not look up to or worship men.

Catholicism didn't organize itself until later on. They wern't even called Christians at the begining - much less Catholics. It's not a true claim.

Answer 5

When you refer to Catholics, I assume you mean Roman Catholics. The word "Catholic" on its own simply means "universal". As a result, when it is first mentioned, the Vatican jumps on it to say "see, the (Roman) Catholic Church was first!"

The same party game can be played with any number of words. For example Logos. It is an ancient word and I have created some ideas around it. So given it was first used over 2,000 years ago and providing I can fabricate a history since then- my philosophy of Logos is the oldest in the world...

The first churches were not Rome. Roman Catholic created their ficticious claims from around the 6th Century onwards in open defiance of acknowledged history. It is why the church split from the Orthodox (which means traditional or "first") because they kept "creating" mythical history.

Answer 6

Congratulations to Paien for the only strictly accurate answer so far. You wouldn't happen to be known as Hugues, by any chance ? ;-)

He wrote : No, the Essenes are.

This is the actual situation. Yashua commanded his followers to gather to James (Yacov ) the Just, his younger brother, who was head of the Qumran Essenes, and the Jerusalem church, the original proto-christian church, which was also the break-away faction of the Pharisee movement of the Sanhedrin at the time. Which was why the Saduccees under Annanias, and the 'official' Pharisees under Caiphas, were so adamant that they wanted Pilate to execute Yashua, and his brother, together with several of their followers.

The Catholic Church was, as some have indicated, mainly the churches scattered across Asia-Minor and Greece, set up mostly by Paul and Barnabas, with some help from some of the 'Apostles'.

The Roman Church was the creature of Constantine and his Council of Nicea, convened in 325 ad. At this council it was decided in truly Roman style that the founder of the religion was a 'God'. In order to adapt to the, then, peculiar notion of monotheism, the council had to do a coiple of doctrinal flic-flacs, and produced the thoroughly confusing 'Trinity', Father, Son and Holy Ghost, as a three-headed God, who was really a singularity.

This was so clear that people are still confused, and arguing about it today, nearly 1700 years later !

So no, 'catholics' were a splinter group which allowed Gentiles in, contrary to the 'Law of Moses' which the Jerusalem Church could not countenance, but which Paul/Saul insisted on. Which was why they were locked in mortal combat, James falling victim to assassination by Paul's faction in 68 ad.

The Roman Catholics were a political control group, organised by Constantine 300 years after the time of Yashua, to try to hold his crumbling eastern Roman Empire up, it worked so well that Constantine was able to murder his western co-emperor, Licinius, and take over as 'Cappo di Tutti'.

The Jerusalem Church was the original 'Christian' church following the direct instructions ( according to the best available information ) of Yashua and his brother(s). This group fell victim to Paul and his machinations around 68 70 ad, a time of great tumult in Palestine of the era, sadly as now.

Answer 7

No you are not wrong. You are 100% correct.

The Roman Catholic Church contends that its origin is the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ in approximately 30 A.D. The Catholic Church proclaims itself to be the Church that Jesus Christ died for, the Church that was established and built by the Apostles. Is that the true origin of the Catholic Church? On the contrary. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus, or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship / adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in Heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. So, if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church?

For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine “legalized” Christianity at the Edict of Milan in A.D. 313. Later, in A.D. 325, Constantine called together the Council of Nicea, in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith, but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine promoted was a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism.

Answer 8

What?
The word "Catholic" means "universal." The term was used in reference to the Church as a whole, as differentiated from an individual Church in a particular city.
Like so many words, "saint" (or "holy one") has two meanings. On the one hand, all Christians are saints. But there are also 'canonized' saints.
Compare the word "Aposlte," which can refer to any Christian, or specifically to those who saw the risen Christ. Also "prophet," which can refer to the Old Testament prophets, or it can refer to anyone who looks foward to the second advent of Christ. Or "heaven," which can refer to the sky, or to the transcendent Kingdom of God.

I almost forgot - the modern Roman Catholic Church is not the first Christian denomination. They actually date back to 936 AD, which was when the broke off from the original 'Catholic' Church.

Answer 9

saints = hagios = sanctified, holy ones. Separated from sin, consecrated to God. Were those folks not set apart and sanctified by their redemption in Christ? Your argument presupposes a narrow definition of "saint" by Catholics to be only those formally canonized by the Church. Even the Chuch acknowledges that there are many more "saints" than just those on the Who's Who in Sainthood list, so to speak. The communion of the saints refers to the unity of all believers, past and present, in the body of Christ.

There are saints, and those who strive to be saints. You could call them wannabes, if you like. On the other hand, maybe Paul was just giving everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Answer 10

Paul's letters(epistles) were written to churches , not saints

His letters are largely written to churches which he had founded or visited; he was a great traveler, visiting Cyprus, Asia Minor (modern Turkey), Macedonia, mainland Greece, Crete, and Rome bringing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, first to Jews and then to Gentiles. His letters are full of expositions of what Christians should believe and how they should live. What he does not tell his correspondents (or the modern reader) is much about the life and teachings of Jesus; his most explicit references are to the Last Supper (1 Cor 11:17-34) and the crucifixion and resurrection (1 Cor 15). His specific references to Jesus' teaching are likewise sparse, raising the question, still disputed, as to how consistent his account of the faith is with that of the four canonical Gospels, Acts, and the Epistle of James. Nevertheless, he provides the first written account of the relationship of the Christian to the Risen Christ - what it is to be a Christian - and thus of Christian spirituality.