What are the chances of getting a valid modus ponens or modus tollens argument for God being the first cause of everything and not getting a bunch of "I cant explain it, you just need to believe"?
2007-05-03 09:32:43 · 11 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
1 In the world of sensible things there is an order of efficient causes, and within this order nothing can be the cause of itself (every sensible thing that exists has a distinct cause of its coming into existence).
2 If #1 above, then if there is no first cause of sensible things, then the sum total of all [temporal or non-temporal] chain(s) of efficient causes and effects must go on to infinity.
2 But, the sum total of all [temporal or non-temporal] chain(s) of efficient causes and effects cannot go on to infinity—this is abhorrent to reason.
3 If there is a first cause (of sensible things), then this cause cannot itself be caused--it is uncaused.
4 If something is uncaused (if it is outside the normal chain of efficient cause and effect), then it is immutable and outside the (normal) realm of natural things.
This won't convince everyone, but it's the best one can do to try and grasp the infinite, uncaused, creator.
Cheers :-)
2007-05-03 10:03:51 · answer #1 · answered by chekeir 6 · 3⤊ 0⤋
We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: " . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Psalm 90:2). And, "Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" (Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was.
To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been.
Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.
Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end -- and/or no beginning. Since God has no beginning or end, He has no beginning. This is because He is outside of time.
2007-05-03 16:40:35 · answer #2 · answered by Mark 3 · 3⤊ 2⤋
Won't happen. CAN'T happen, as it happens. St. Thomas Aquinas formulated the strongest expression of this concept, and it was shot down less than a hundred years later.
The "Prima Causa" arguement is invalid.
The reason it is invalid is that there are possible counters to it. The first counter is that instead of an infinite beginning, there is an infinitely long string of finite beginnings (turtles on turtles). The second counter is that even assuming a prima causa, there is no reason to ascribe any particular property to it besides 'first cause'; anything else, such as intelligence, omnipotence, emotive reaction, etc, is entirely a moot point to the prima causa argument.
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Chekier:
An admirably concise formulation of St Thomas Aquinas's approach.
However, as mentioned above, that approach is flawed.
2007-05-03 16:38:21 · answer #3 · answered by Anonymous · 3⤊ 3⤋
It depends on what your concept of god is..If you find the root understanding god ..then maybe you could make an argument as to how this could be the first cause of anything or everything that happens
2007-05-03 16:52:08 · answer #4 · answered by bagel lover 3 · 2⤊ 1⤋
I don't know what that means and I don't feel like looking it up. Maybe I'll come back later and edit this. Take a look at most of my "Religion & Spirituality" answers. Rarely do I say I can't explain it. I also don't feel like checking all my answers but I may have never answered with that. Although you probably wouldn't like my explanations cause they are mostly based on the Bible.
2007-05-03 16:40:15 · answer #5 · answered by linnea13 5 · 3⤊ 2⤋
I'll quote Surah 112 of Quran
(translation by Yousuf Ali)
Surah 112. The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him
2007-05-03 16:48:33 · answer #6 · answered by Ali 5 · 1⤊ 3⤋
What do we observe in the world? Everything has a beginning correct? So what's the universes beginning? Did it always exist, somewhere at sometime there had to be an infinite followed by a finite.
2007-05-03 16:41:57 · answer #7 · answered by yaabro 4 · 2⤊ 3⤋
God is required as a first cause.
Read "The case for a creator"
2007-05-03 16:44:19 · answer #8 · answered by Anonymous · 3⤊ 2⤋
Let's face it - you won't. God as first cause is a cop-out like all other invocations of the supernatural.
2007-05-03 16:40:47 · answer #9 · answered by Simon B 3 · 1⤊ 4⤋
God didn't have a beginning, so He needed no cause. http://www.allaboutgod.com/faq/designer.htm
2007-05-03 17:00:39 · answer #10 · answered by Me Encanta Espanol 4 · 1⤊ 1⤋