Christians who hold to the "reformed" doctrine of predestination...?

Question

Please - from the heart - how do you reconcile the biblical teaching of God's election of believers with the (apparently) biblical teaching that all unsaved people will suffer conscious eternal punishment in the lake of fire (Hell) ? Does this bother you ?

I am convinced of the validity of the doctrine of election, that it is biblical. I also hold (somewhat tentatively) to the teaching that Hell is a place of conscious eternal suffering. I have a hard time with this, but I have to go with the Bible, not my own feelings.

How do you feel ?

Matt C -

Some good points. Yes, the doctrine of election IS all over scripture.

Ephesians 1:4 & 5 speaks of God's election in salvation -

"Even as (God) chose us in (Christ) before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, PREDESTINATING us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will" (inserts mine, caps for emphasis).

John 6:44 shows how the sinner is utterly unable to choose Christ apart from the Father's drawing power -

(Jesus said) "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up in the last day."

Ephesians 2:3 - 5 indicates that pre - conversion Christians are not only spiritually dead, but are not in the least bit PREDISPOSED to choose God, thus dispelling the myth (which I once subscribed to) that God elects believers based upon foreknowledge of a positive response to the gospel on their part...

..."Among whom we also all conducted ourselves once in the lusts of the flesh and of the thoughts, AND WERE BY NATURE children of wrath, EVEN AS THE REST; But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, EVEN WHEN WE WERE DEAD IN OFFENSES, MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)".

That salvation is a sovereign work of God and does not depend upon the will of man -

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name, who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." - John 1:12 & 13.

kj7gs -

Thanks for your answer. Theologically sound. But are you really not bothered by sinners suffering eternal, conscious torment ? Surely not.

Answer 1

Well, we know that all mankind are born sinners and that no one deserves to be saved; quite the contrary.
The violent suffering death and received wrath of the perfect, righteous Son of God on the cross for sinners is a testament of just how serious sin is in the eyes of a just and holy God.
Does it bother me that many will spend eternity suffering under the wrath of God, even many that I know and love? Of course!
It breaks my heart, and I'm terrified by the thought!
But how much more does it break my heart that Jesus suffered under this wrath on my behalf, and on behalf of all His people?
I know that God shows His glory in His wrath, to the praise of the glory of His grace on the vessels of His mercy.
I've seen and see the horrible wretchedness of my sin and I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that He would be perfectly just in condemning me to an eternity of suffering in Hell. I marvel at the thought that He would ever save a one like me.
Amazing love,
Amazing grace,
Amazing mercy,
Praise the Lord!

Answer 2

All humanity is now involved in a great controversy between Christ and Satan regarding the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. This conflict originated in heaven when a created being, endowed with freedom of choice, in self-exaltation became Satan, God's adversary, and led into rebellion a portion of the angels. He introduced the spirit of rebellion into this world when he led Adam and Eve into sin. This human sin resulted in the distortion of the image of God in humanity, the disordering of the created world, and its eventual devastation at the time of the worldwide flood. Observed by the whole creation, this world became the arena of the universal conflict, out of which the God of love will ultimately be vindicated. To assist His people in this controversy, Christ sends the Holy Spirit and the loyal angels to guide, protect, and sustain them in the way of salvation. (Rev. 12:4-9; Isa. 14:12-14; Eze. 28:12-18; Gen. 3; Rom. 1:19-32; 5:12-21; 8:19-22; Gen. 6-8; 2 Peter 3:6; 1 Cor. 4:9; Heb. 1:14.)

Heaven would be hell for someone who doesn't love or worship God because that is what you will be doing everyday and if you don't love Him here or worship Him then you will not be happy in Heaven.

Answer 3

I can understand your dilemma completely. Think about this for a while though.

You are a father. You have children learning to walk. Because you are older, wiser, stronger, etc. you can look at their actions and already SEE that one of your children will walk properly and the other will slam straight into a wall and hurt himself. No matter what you do, this is unavoidable.

And so just as you KNEW it would happen, it happens. Now the child who slammed into the wall is crying out in pain and suffering. They fully comprehend now what they did wrong. They regret not looking properly. They regret not heeding your calls of caution. So the question is.....

What do YOU do?

What purpose does having your child suffer forever in pain and torment serve? What does it accomplish? And if you allow it to happen, how does that gel with your promise that you are a loving and merciful father who does not delight in human suffering and whose wrath does not last forever? Could YOU as a father endure to watch your toddler (and we are indeed toddlers compared to God) cry out to you in pain and suffering and let the suffering continue? If so, why not?
And what does that say about the nature of God (remember we are created in His image).

Perhaps the question is not whether hell exists or what exactly IS hell (because you can look at it in many ways) but whether it is truly everlasting. Based on what I know from the bible, I don't think it is.

1 Chronicles 16:34; Psalm 106:1, 107:1, 118:1, 136:1; Jeremiah 33:11
O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good; for his mercy endureth forever.

The bible also says that eventually EVERY knee will bow. Which is in fact the ONLY outcome that a truly Almighty God deserves don't you think? Anything else (like millions being lost forever in hell) would be a HUGE failure of this human experiment don't you think? Especially if God KNEW from the beginning all of this will happen.

The bible also says that hell will be cast into the lake of fire in Revelations. So that means hell is NOT forever. OR that hell is in fact symbolic just as the lake of fire is symbolic.

Ponder these things and ALWAYS remember 'God IS Love'.

Answer 4

I see many people quote versus like seek and you shall find and knock and it shall be opened and versus like John 3:16 is the most misquoted verse in all of scripture. these versus are all speaking to believers john 3:16 is a promise not an invitation. The election doctrine is all over scripture. He chose the nation of Israel. why is it so hard to believe that he has chosen us. He is giving those who he didn't choose perfect justice and that sentence they will agree with. you may say that's not fair that He chooses whom He wants but at least He's not handing out unfair judgements. Jesus said "All that the Father HAS given Me WILL come to Me. That's the verse that make election doctrine undeniable to me, nevermind ephisians and romans.

Answer 5

No, it does not bother me because in Adam's federal representation of sinners, we ALL deserve Hell. Yet God has elected some unto salvation from before the foundations of the world, saved from eternity to eternity even though He would be fully justified in leaving us in our sins. And He is glorified in doing so. People forget that in His unfathomable holiness, he is ALSO glorified in his reprobation of unbelievers.

Answer 6

I am a southern baptist. Most in my denominarion believe that there is an eternal fire in which the lost will spend eternity. I do not know if there will be eternal burning in hell or not. But I do believe that if we are lost, we will spend eternity separated from the presence of God. Maybe they will burn ; maybe they won't, but eternal separation in itself will be hell. I do not believe in the doctrine of predestination. I believe each one of us has the free will to accept or deny the grace that is offered by God through the sacrifice of His Son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The acceptance or denial of this gift will determine where we will spend eternity.

Answer 7

That's the safe bet, going with the Bible. I would say that you just can't fault God for knowing. He's omniscient. Why He elects is a mystery. But if He does it because He foreknows who will accept Christ, and who will not, we can't blame Him for knowing that, can we? Romans 8: 29-31 spells it out in a way that, although marvelous, we can get a glimpse of what He did. Of course, he can use any criteria He wants to save His own. If someone wins the election, someone loses. But it isn't because they are found to be inferior. Could it be that God just foreknows?

Answer 8

it relatively is genuine that the Bible makes use of the be conscious "predestination". What it says is that God has predetermined a holiday spot (heaven) for people who keep on with him. no longer something in the context implies the thought God forces some human beings into heaven and others into hell and provides them no pick in the difficulty. attempting analyzing the completed sentence fairly of one be conscious and enforcing your very own definition on it.

Answer 9

If I had a child, no matter how evil he/she was - I would not want that child to suffer for eternity... so, I find it hard to believe that God would let people suffer "In a lake of fire" - there are other places in the bible where it says those in 'hell' are simply on the outside of heaven - where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth - they live outside because they have chosen not to acknowledge God as their Lord and master, creator

Answer 10

I feel we should ask God and ask Him for the Holy Spirit to reveal to us the truth about hell, I do believe there is hell of eternal torment, However I do not believe souls stay there for eternity. Just as Jesus did not stay there for eternity. But that is just my opinion on that issue. Take care and may God bless you spiritually.