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two? Before Ignatian came on the scene there were only Bishops and deacons. After Ignatian you have bishops, elders, and deacons. Three other names for bishop are elder, pastor and presbyter. There is no so called seperate higher office of bishop which is over over a so called office of elder when an elder or pastor IS actually a bishop. The Bible says that there are only bishops (also called elders, pastors, or presbytors) and deacons and that is it.

2007-05-01 11:25:26 · 3 answers · asked by 1saintofGod 6 in Society & Culture Religion & Spirituality

3 answers

The first error you make is that you assume that St. Ignatius brought this about. He appeals to it and orders it both. It is already in place from Asia Minor all the way over to Rome. For it to be so widespread, it must have developed before the Apostle John, and possibly others, had died. This puts a new spin on things.

For, Christ did not hand down an exclusively two-fold structure. He only instituted the office of bishop (overseer/elder at first) directly. We see in Acts the ordination of the first deacons (Acts 6), and the Apostles did it on their own. Is it inspired? You seem to think so, and thus, you grant the Apostles the power to create new offices (and the Church also? That would only be consistent).

The second possibility left unaddressed is that the earliest writings were still filtering out the language. There's been more than one occasion when a religious group was new to call two slightly different things by the same name and only slowly differentiate it. How can you know that the process of development didn't include the vocabulary itself?

Lastly, even if the vocabulary accurately reflects the divisions of the time, all your authorities on the matter come from the NT and related writings, and I would wager the NT alone. If it is just the NT you make your case from, how do you even use a NT? The NT was produced by the same Tradition your post seems to vehemently oppose, and what's more, the NT give the Church the ability to do this.

If you want to include the other documents, then you've already admitted everything we need again, because we have the apostolic authority to do this shown in the creation of deacons, but also the fact that St. Ignatius learned at the feet of the Apostle John. Do you really think you know more about what is sound Christian structure than he does and that you can correct someone who learned from the apostle himself? If so, then there's not much more I can say. If not, then you will quickly embrace the three-fold hierarchy. That all revolves around your opinion of yourself.

2007-05-01 12:05:22 · answer #1 · answered by Innokent 4 · 0 0

If there are only two offices in the church, bishops and deacons, then I guess Paul was wrong when he thought he had an office also, called the apostle.

Bishops and deacons are the officers of a local church. The first are responsible for the spiritual needs of the church, the second handle the physical needs.

But nothing in scripture says there are no higher offices which have leadership over multiple local churches. Rather it supports that idea in the persons of the apostles, and in events like that in Acts 15 where the local leaders when to Jerusalem to James the Just for decisions of church doctrine and practices.

2007-05-01 11:34:00 · answer #2 · answered by dewcoons 7 · 1 0

Catholics belive that presbyters (monks) are a diverse and subordinate place of work from bishops and characteristic performed so for practically 2,000 years. So we see 3 biblical ranges of ordination: + Bishops + Priest (Presbyters) + Deacons With love in Christ.

2016-11-24 19:12:31 · answer #3 · answered by yanaton 4 · 0 0

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