How can a Catholic support through the Bible that Tradition is important in addition to the Bible?

Question

I have a non-denom friend who says the Bible is all we need. We both disagree on what some passages actually mean, and I (as a Catholic) feel the need then use the Catholic Church to support my opinions, where she says the Bible is the only thing needed. When we butt heads with teh Bible, and I try another level...she uses the Bible again. Am I trying to be right?...Yes. We aren't arguing for compromise but instead truth. Any help here?

Answer 1

Thank you for your question.
The Bible is not the sole infallible guide to Christian doctrine and practice. Nowhere in the Bible does it say so. Divine revelation is transmitted in three ways - Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the teaching authority of the Church. The Church founded by Jesus is the final authority.

The Catholic Church is the Church of the living God and the pillar and foundation of truth.
"But if I delay, this letter will let you know how we should conduct ourselves in God's household, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth." - 1 Timothy 3, 15


Matt. 18:17-18 - the Church (not Scripture) is the final authority on questions of the faith. This demands infallibility when teaching the faith. She must be prevented from teaching error in order to lead her members to the fullness of salvation.

Matt. 10:20; Luke 12:12 - Jesus tells His apostles it is not they who speak, but the Spirit of their Father speaking through them. If the Spirit is the one speaking and leading the Church, the Church cannot err on matters of faith and morals.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus promises the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. This requires that the Church teach infallibly. If the Church did not have the gift of infallibility, the gates of Hades and error would prevail. Also, since the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation, those who follow the Protestant reformers call Christ a liar by saying that Hades did prevail.

Matt. 16:19 - for Jesus to give Peter and the apostles, mere human beings, the authority to bind in heaven what they bound on earth requires infallibility. This is a gift of the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with the holiness of the person receiving the gift.

Luke 10:16 - whoever hears you, hears me. Whoever rejects you, rejects me. Jesus is very clear that the bishops of the Church speak with Christ's infallible authority.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus promises that He will be with the Church always. Jesus' presence in the Church assures infallible teaching on faith and morals. With Jesus present, we can never be deceived.

Holy Tradition and Continuity

"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

"It was he who gave gifts to people; he appointed some to be apostles, others to be prophets, others to be evangelists, others to be pastors and teachers. He did this to prepare all God's people for the work of Christian service, in order to build up the body of Christ". - Ephesians 4,11-12

"Remember your former leaders, who spoke God's message to you. Think back on how they lived and died, and imitate their faith". - Hebrews 13,7
Peace and every blessing!

Answer 2

If you are really looking for truth, then why look any other place than the Bible?

Logically...

You say you want to be a Christian - a follower of Jesus Christ.

Then what other source exists that has direct information about Him?

The Bible is the highest level of understanding that can be had. So why do you keep trying to drag the conversation to a LOWER level?

If you throw the Bible out of a discussion on Christianity, then every idea stays on the table. But if the Bible is used, then many arguments are swept away immediately.

It does not sound like you are searching for truth, as much as you seem to be brow beating this person into your SUBJECTIVE way of thinking every time she points to OBJECTIVE and discernable TRUTH.

If you do not believe in compromising, then stop compromising with the world, and join to the Savior alone.

Answer 3

LOL! I had the same kind of conversation with a friend of mine who is non-denom. We went round and round, but he could not stand against the truth.

I'm not as well versed as the other Catholic brothers who responded to your question, but the meat of it gets down to this: one, the history of the bible, and two, the history of the Church.

iamcatholic has it right: it was impossible for the early Church to establish doctrine based on scripture because there WAS NO bible. It wasn't officially canonized until about the year 400. Most protestants don't understand (or refuse to admit) that there was no bible during those first years. How, then, did the Church spread and grow if it had no bible?

Sacred Tradition is the answer.

Most protestants refuse to accept anything with the word 'tradition' attached to it, much less the authority of the Church, but the fact is that Jesus set down one Faith, one Church, not 54,000 different kinds. The problem with sola scriptura is that it throws out the Sacred Tradition that is the foundation needed for understanding scripture. Without Sacred Tradition, the bible can be made to mean anything someone wants it to. Without Sacred Tradition, a person is left only with their own personal interpretations, which is why we have so many different protestant denoms.

Jesus set down one Faith, one Church. The apostles spread the one Faith. New Christians learned the one Faith.

The new Christians were not free to take the one faith, interpret it how they felt about it, and teach their version to others. This practice is the basis of protestantism.

One Faith, one Church.

Well, hope this helps. God bless, and take care.

Answer 4

before you guys begin to start another conversation/arguement over this ask your friend to research where the bible came from,it's formation etc..........from this she will soon encounter that tradition is important,infact without tradition we wouldn't have the bible. ask her to use sources that are catholic,secular etc so she can see it from different perspectives.

here are some sites that she can use

www.scripturecatholic.com
www.catholiceducation.org

another point- bible alone came 1500 years after the catholic church wass the established christian church. ask her to point out where in the bible it says the bible is our sole rule of authority,be ready to counter what scripture she will use by putting it in context,you can't pick in choose scripture to win an arguement that is an insult to god. even the devil knows scripture,he tempted jesus with scripture in the desert,however jesus knows scripture in CONTEXT so do catholics.

a catholic guide to the bible by father oscar lukefahr,c.m could help you a good deal. go to www.amm.org/chss.htm the site offers study programmes,they will send you the book and a workbook to see how well you are doing, it is free and donations are appreciated but not required.

Answer 5

Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

The Catholic Church does not use Holy Scripture as the only basis of doctrine. It could not. The early Catholic church existed before and during the time that the New Testament was written (by Catholics).

There were hundreds of Christian writings during the first and second centuries. Which New Testament writings would become official was not fully decided until about 400 AD.

Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit was guiding the early church (and is guiding the church today) to make the correct choices about things like:
+ The Holy Trinity (which is also only hinted at in the Bible)
+ Going to church on Sunday instead of Saturday (which is actually directly against one of the Ten Commandments)
+ The Communion of Saints
+ Which writings include in the New Testament?

Things that are even more modern like
+ Slavery is bad. Slavery is never declared evil in the Bible. This was one of the justifications for slavery in the Confederate States.
+ Democracy is good. The Bible states that either God should be the leader of the nation like Israel before the kings or kings should be the leader, "Give to Caesar that which is Caesar's." This was talked about a lot during the American Revolution.

This second source of doctrine is called Apostolic Tradition.

Do Christians who do not allow the continuing guiding force of the Holy Spirit to make their beliefs more and more perfect, still endorse slavery as Colossians 3:22 commands, "Slaves, obey your human masters in everything"?

We instruct you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us. (2 Thessalonians 3:6)

I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you. (1 Corinthians 11:2)

With love in Christ.

Answer 6

The Word of God is the only authority for the Christian faith. Traditions are valid only when they are based on Scripture and are in full agreement with Scripture. Traditions that are in contradiction with the Bible are not of God and are not a valid aspect of the Christian faith. Sola scriptura is the only way to avoid subjectivity and personal opinion from taking priority over the teachings of the Bible. The essence of Sola scriptura is basing your spiritual life on the Bible alone, and rejecting any tradition or teaching that is not in full agreement with the Bible. 2 Timothy 2:15 declares, "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the Word of truth."

Answer 7

Tradition equates to practical experience.

The Catholic Church actually experienced Jesus, the apostles, Mary, Joseph, Christmas, Good Friday, the Resurrection, Pentecost, persecutions and martyrdom, the triumph of the Church, and all that has happened since.

The Bible contains only a tiny portion of that experience, and absent the authentic context, which IS tradtion, it can be interpreted in thousands of totally different and completely erroneous ways.

Anyone who actually believes they can show up 1500 years or more after the true church was founded, set up their own arbitrary rules, which deny or totally discount ALL that came before (except for the sketchy accounts included in scripture) and then claim they know something about the authentic Christian faith, and the true meaning of the Bible, is seriously deluded.

Protestants will tell you the Holy Spirit enlightens them about scripture's true meaning, but the Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion, and 31,000 different Chrisian denominations, professing 31,000 different creeds isn't exactly a sign of divine wisdom.

Besides, Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to his Church ... the one he founded, authorized, empowered, and guaranteed ... and not any other.

Ask your friend to show you exactly where God ever told anyone to write a single line of scripture ... in either the old or new testaments.

Then ask her where we find the specific written rules that state scripture is somehow supposed to be superior to the church, and the sole rule of faith.

Neither of these things exist.

In the end, what you will discover is that your friend has simply discarded the authentic, God inspired traditions of the one, true church, in favor of her own, late day and totally unauthorized, traditions of men.

But she'll never admit it.

Answer 8

Well, the Catholic Bible has a few extra books tacked onto it called the "Apocrypha." Non-Catholic Christians do not adhere to it. They adhere to the saying "sola scriptura," meaning that the 66 books of the traditional Bible cannot be added to or subtracted from.

Answer 9

Are you asking a query ? it must be to believe the Church instituted by using Christ. however the clergymen. Being an ex-Catholic monk, i might say discover me 3 clergymen that could agree on extra advantageous than 2 issues, and we are going to communicate.

Answer 10

I think that the two of you have seperate religious beliefs and that is okay. You should be able to get along without having to prove to one another who is right. I was raised Catholic and heard it from everyone. I just smiled and nodded. My belief system was all that mattered. If you are trying to find out for yourself, that is different. I think the first thing you have to do is determine why it is you wish to win this argument.