If there is no God, can there be morality?

Question

If the truth must come from a higher source, then if there is no higher source, there can't be any truth, right? So how can atheists criticize any religion for being "immoral?"

Brett A, you said, "Well, there *are* no Gods and there *is* morality... So, YES."
However, here are the answers I've been getting from other atheists:
"Atheists derive moral truth from themselves."
"Morality, however subjective they may be, could easily have arisen through natural selection."
"Why does truth have to come from a "higher source"? Why can't the higher source be man?"

If you have no unassailable moral construct, then morality is subjective, thus NON-EXISTENT. To say that it arose from natural selection means 2 things--
1. It probably occurred when inferior humans developed their own system of law (which makes atheistic morality even more based on "fear" than Christianity. Truth has nothing to do with fear though.)
2. This "morality" is subject to change. In Nazi Germany, where the slaughter of Jews was the norm, or in the U.S. where lying about whether or not another country has WMD is acceptable, their "morality" is fine because the majority agrees on it.

Rabidbunyip--
The argument that,
"...Without belief in God as the absolute arbiter of morality, they say, all values become relative, and people become hedonistic maniacs...Observation will show you that the vast majority of atheists are law abiding, ethical citizens...,"
Is pointless. What do you mean by ethics? Just obeying the law? Is man's law then what we call morality? The fact that atheists have some sense of right and wrong can be explained by Christians from Romans chapters 1-2 where Paul explains that God has placed a conscience in all of us. If this conscience is where morality comes from, as some of you are saying, then you must come up with a reason why this conscience tells us something is wrong. If God created it, then it makes sense. Otherwise, our conscience is a NEUROSIS that we should get rid of so we can have more fun.

Answer 1

Well, there *are* no Gods and there *is* morality... So, YES.
And there *is* truth, but there is *no* higher source, so your second assertion fails, too. You are *most* illogical.

“Morality does not depend on religion.” -- John Ruskin
“The death of dogma is the birth of morality.” -- Immanuel Kant

[Edit]: Re Add. Dtls.: You make no sense - the "other atheists" don't conflict with my post, so WHAT are you trying to say? ... But the rest of your rant is very crude and biased garbage. ... Please define "inferior humans"? Inferior to *you*? (Not by *this* post.) *Most* bigotted! ... Your talk is KKK talk!

You're well and truly full of it, and quite full of yourself with your unsubstantiated God / morality points - I suggest you take a tolerance tablet and learn to debate with logic. You effectively state that atheist Norway, Sweden, Denmark, et al, plus a billion other Atheists are somehow beneath your high and mighty self, while your ludicrous "God" advocates DEATH for 2/3s of ALL HUMANITY! ... Get real - follow something decent. Get off your rather repulsive high horse, pleeease!

Your assertions are baseless and flawed, except for the very irrelevant: "Truth has nothing to do with fear". Duh! Point?

Remember that Nazi Germany was run by a Christian, thru and thru - raised and solid Catholic til in power; then Positive Christianity. Am I missing your point? ... My Favorite Religious Hitler Quote: "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter."

Answer 2

The argument often put forth by Christians is that if there is no God, then there are no absolutes. If there are no absolutes, there can be no absolute morality. Without belief in God as the absolute arbiter of morality, they say, all values become relative, and people become hedonistic maniacs.

There's no need to even address this argument. Observation will show you that the vast majority of atheists are law abiding, ethical citizens. In fact, to refute this argument, we need only find one atheist who is not a debaucher, murderer, and rapist.

EDIT: No, we would not "have more fun" if we dispensed with morality. A state of lawlessness would inhibit the individual's ability to "have fun," because we would all then spend our time in fear of what others might do to us. Morality is a social contract where by we treat others in a suitable way, and it turn they treat us suitably. Those who break this contract are punished by society, to the best of its ability, not by some ephemeral God who can never be perceived, in some other life that no one can prove exists.

Morality arose from the need for people to work together in order to survive. If everyone acted on every impulse, survival would be impossible.

Answer 3

Is there a reason why the truth must come from a higher source?

If there is no reason why the truth must come from a higher source, then the truth is just somewhere.

Atheists criticized SOME religion for being hypocritical and somewhat immoral as these religions put their "truth" onto others by a non-existence entity call a god.

For example : One can say "Thou shall not kill" then this guy goes around on a killing spree until the day he die for "god".

Now is that moral?


Ok .... now for the big question ... What does truth got to do with morally?

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:( ... there is not even a second question for me ..... anyway, what does this phase said by different atheists by different language during different time frame with similar meaning means to you :

"Do not do onto others what do you not want to be done to you"

I guess that would be the basic moral standard human follows, but some religion actually goes against it in the name of their god.

Answer 4

Morality is not dependent on God. Many moral philosophers base their morality on metaphysics and moral philosophy, not religion. Utilitarianism (J.S. Mill, J. Bentham, etc) is a moral philosophy based on the utility of action, and has nothing to do with God. Similarly, there are many forms of moral absolutism and moral relativism, which are moral standards (absolute or relative) nonetheless. Another example is Aristotle's virtue-based morality.

So, if morality can be based on something other than God, then using that moral standard, atheists can criticize any religion for being "immoral". For example, atheists would consider the killing of all firstborns in Egypt (by the Judeo-Christian God) immoral. We would also consider any other act immoral if it's comparable with our own atheist moral standard.

However, I should point out that many atheists reject any moral standard like the logical positivists (e.g. A.H. Ayer).

Answer 5

Of course there can be morality without religion or god. Truth is within all of us, not from an outside source. Why is it necessary to have someone else tell you what to do or to wait for someone else to help us? You make it all happen.

Atheists are more moral (IMHO) than religious folks because we know this is all we have and we have to do right with it the first time because we don't get a second chance. Atheists represent the smallest population of prison inmates in America... that speaks volumes for me.

Answer 6

Why does truth have to come from a "higher source"? Why can't the higher source be man? Morality from any religion narrowly defines behavior from the viewpoint of that religion. Any other viewpoint from another belief system is automatically wrong, or immoral.

Answer 7

properly i've got questioned this many circumstances. I even have asked and been informed numerous issues. I asked one individual who became right into a sprint on the bias factor, and he or she claimed God helps the weaker races/communities to be ruled for the wellness of Earth/humanity. Others say it somewhat is loose will. i in my view think of that rather some people are not somewhat Christians. For in the event that they have been, they does no longer do rather some the terrible issues they do, they might say the undesirable issues they are asserting and that they does no longer propose the rather some atrocities they have perpetrated interior the previous. That being stated it somewhat is no longer ALL Christians, subsequently why there seems to be inconsistencies. it relies upon on if the guy is a real Christian and in the event that they seem to be a ethical being. in short(my opinion) some everybody is in basic terms Christian for tutor. they want corresponding to being seen as a 'solid individual' in society; yet once you're actually not a solid individual, even with your ideals no longer something will make you somewhat the type you want to look.

Answer 8

Basing morality on God doesn't work.

If it's just a matter of God's say-so, then morality becomes arbitrary. I mean, suppose that rape is wrong just because God says so. That means if God had decided to make rape okay, it would have been okay. Rape could have been exactly the same, but instead of being wrong it would be okay. That barely makes sense.

And why should we do what God says? There should be a good, morally satisfactory reason, right? So is it just because he's so powerful? But that's not the right kind of reason. Maybe it's because he's our creator and we owe him gratitude? But that means there must be some independent moral principle, one about owing gratitude to one's creator. Maybe we should do what God says because God is good? But that means there must be some independent moral principle, saying why God counts as good instead of bad.

And why exactly did God decide to make rape wrong instead of right? Did he have a good reason? If so, then there must be an independent moral principle, saying why rape ought to be made wrong instead of right. Did he have no reason at all? Was it a matter of pure whimsy? Coin-flipping? Then, again, morality is completely arbitrary and God doesn't even act on reasons.

This is an old problem: if you base morality on God, then morality becomes arbitrary; if you try to fix the arbitrariness problem, then you end up with morality being independent of God.

Answer 9

If there is no God, everything is relative. Everyone would fare in this life according to the management of the creature. Therefore, every man would prosper according to his genius, and every man would conquer according to his strength, and whatsoever a man did would be no crime, and when a man died that would be the end thereof. This kind of thinking causes people to lift up their heads in wickedness because it is pleasing to the carnal mind. This philosophy of relativism with its naturalism, materialism, and moral relativism, is the prevailing philosophy of our own day, as was foreseen in the Book of Mormon: 'Yea...there shall be great pollutions upon the face of the earth... when there shall be many who will say, Do this, or do that, and it mattereth not..."

Answer 10

You start with a false premise: truth does not need to come from a higher source.

Atheists derive moral truth from themselves. From how they feel, and from what they know, about life and the universe.