To all Jews (real ones)?

Question

I heard this question on another site and was wanting to get some reactions from you:

" i'm a converted jew and i converted to reconstructionist judaism. but i converted by myself doing my own service and bar mitzvah without a rabbi. the reason for this is becuase every rabbi has told me that i can not convert without being circumcised but i'm happy the way i am. i don't believe i have to mark myself to join a religous order. i think its the belief and spiritualality of the person that makes his covernent with the divine force, not cutting his penis. anyway, i want to know what you guys think.

looking forward to your comments,
shalom to you all and bless be."

Now I don't want any soapbox crouchers coming in here and yelling about how circumcision is evil and stupid things like that. What do you guys think about what this person said?

I do believe I said Jews but thanks for your answer anyway.

david i I said all real Jews. As in no Messianics. But thanks anyway.

Answer 1

DISCLAIMER: if you have a good reason for not being circumcised (like hemophilia) instead of just "not believing in it" then thats okay)


I'm glad he wanted to 'join the faith' (In my personal opinion, reconstructionist doesn't qualify as Judaism, but hey, I'm not here to debate that).

The thing is, being Jewish, no matter what sect you join, whether orthodox, reform, reconstructionist, or whatever -- its not just about your relationship to G-d. Its about your relationship to the whole world.

All of the Jewish commandments can be divided into two groups, between man and G-d and man and his fellow man. Circumcision is a man-to-G-d commandment. Its a part of being Jewish. There is no disputing it, mate. Its a physical mark on your body thats a sign of a covenant with G-d. Instead of signing a contract with blood, you sign it with your foreskin.

Half of Judaism is the Jewish community and your place within it. If they don't accept you as Jewish, then you're not a Jew. You can't just claim to be Jewish and not be circumsized. Some religions, like Buddism and Christianity don't require you to do much, just find Nirvana or accept Jesus as your savior. Jews are more than that. Being Jewish isn't just being G-d's homie and you pray to Him -- anyone can pray to G-d. If you want to be a Jew, you take on the rest of the speil, mate... Being Jewish is a culture, its a religion, and its a way of life. There is no halfing it.

If you really want to be Jewish, think about what being Jewish means... G-ds chosen people... but how can you join the ranks if you refuse to meet a simple requirement?

think about it, man... if you want to be Chosen, you gotta make a choice yourself...

Answer 2

Well, this guy is certainly not jewish. No matter if he will be circumcized or not by Reconstructionist people. Becoming Jewish is not only a pretty feeling inside, it's a very strong commitment. If a person approach to a competent Beis Din and says: "well, I want to convert, but I desagree with such and such mitzvah", don't wait to be accepted.

The way more proper to becoming Jewish is through an Orthodox Beis Din. I really don't know why many people want to become Jewish, however they don't want to keep Shabbos or Kashrus according to the JEWISH law. If a guy only likes eating latkes on Chanukah and sing Dayenu on Passover, please, he can do the same thing as a non jew...

Finally, why is he converting? Does he only expects becoming Jewish in front of a congregation or in front of Hashem and all Klal Yisroel?

Answer 3

Judaism is about more than just being "spiritual and content with the divine force". Judaism is a complete way of life that requires community involvement and dedication to God and his laws. The fact that even Reform and Reconstructionist, which are the least adherent of the various Jewish denominations to jewish law, still require circumcision should give you a hint as to how important circumcision is in Judaism. If youreally want to be Jewish and accepted into a Jewish community you have to accept that you are going to have to make some changes to your life and the way you think of yourself and see yourself.

Answer 4

Mozes took the words out of my mouth. There is really nothing left to say, but the fact is that by halacha he is not Jewish.
He needs to convert by proper channels via a rabbi and go through the beit din, be circumcised, and go through the mikveh. Afterwords, if he wants to be Reconstructionist or Reform or Conservative Jew then may G-d bless him in his endeavors. But as of today he is not Jewish and even by Reform standards he would not be counted for a minyan. I've asked a Reform rabbi this question. So L'chaim, I think that you are mistaken that he would be counted as part of a minyan. According to the Reform rabbi that I spoke with she did though say that he is 50% there the other 50% would be going to a mikveh and be circumcised.

Answer 5

You've hit onto a big controversy between Jews and Christians by asking this question. Jews and Christians both worship the same God; the Lord Almighty, the Old Testament of Christianity and the Jewish holy book are practically identical. The difference is that Christians have accepted Jesus as the messiah(prophesised saviour of humanity) and added the new testament whereas Jews are still waiting for the Messiah to arrive. Christians see their faith as a continuation of Judaism and so might call themselves Jews for Jesus. Personally as a Christian I agree with the old shakespeare quote 'whats in a name?(....then he rambles on about roses)' It's what you believe that actually matters. It keeps things simple and saves alot of arguments if we just call those who didn't accept Christ Jews and those who did Christians. There are much more important issues than names and arguing with other religions for christians to focus on.

Answer 6

I am a Jew and in short:
According to Jewish law, no he is NOT jewish.

On a different perspective, I think he just doesn't understand it's importance and it's great significance. Yes, it is part of what makes a Jew a Jew, and it is that way for a reason. He must investigate WHY it is one of the cornerstones of Judaism, which I am sure he hasn't done. In conclusion, I think he is just ill informed.

And if he feels happy the way he is, well I guess he is not ready to become a Jew - because a Jew's life is a constant struggle for self-improvement.

Answer 7

If this fellow wants to become Jewish, he can do so by following the accepted practice of studying Torah and undergoing testing, including his understanding and commitment to observe all the commandments. An essential part of this procedure is ritual circumcision for males.

Just imagine a foreigner coming to America and claiming to become a citizen by his own actions.

This is unfortunately also the case regarding Reform and Conservative "conversions,:" which according to Jewish Law are as invalid as this fellow's silly attempt.

The word for this is well-intentioned nonsense.

Answer 8

Anyone can become Jewish-but to say your becoming Jewish and rejecting the laws of Moses is like a guy saying he decided he is a girl-while having a male anatomy.

You are a gentile who has chosen to pick and chose parts of the Jewish religion and you claim you became a son of the law Bar Mitzvah-by converting yourself-yet as mentioned before if you keep the whole law and break one point your not a law keeper/truely Jewish.

the other part of this is if you reject Moses commanded by God need for a blood atonement for sins-you are also not Jewish by this point too "The life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it upon the altar to make atonement for your souls." Leviticus 17:11

and fulfilled in the promised one of Isaiah = "He will be exalted and made very high. He will be marred more than any man. He will sprinkle many nations. He will be despised and rejected. All we like sheep have gone astray and the Lord will make to light on Him the iniquity of us all. He will lay down his life to make atonement for our sins. Isaiah 52:13-53:12

NO atonement =not Jewish spiritualy
No circumcision=not physically Jewish either

I am glad you desire to be Jewish-why not do it the Jewish way instead of your made up ideas???

thanks for posting this mans ideas-yet if you can not get back to him the answers its all for naught and others may follow his wrong lead. Shalom, David

Answer 9

If he were in our congregation (Reform) and he considered himself to be a Jew, I would also consider him to be part of our community. When I converted I was disappointed to learn that other branches of Judaism don't accept a Reform conversion because we aren't observant, but eventually I resigned myself to the fact that I'm proud to think of myself as a "real" Jew regardless of what others think.

After centuries of being identified as a Jewish "race" by the Christian community, we should all consider ourselves Jews-by-choice since we now have the choice to NOT be a Jew. Think of the thousands who were killed because they didn't have that choice...

However, I do think that circumcision should be a part of the conversion process though. He could participate in Reform or Reconstructionist communities without having converted. In Biblical days there were groups of people who called themselves "God fearers" because they observed all the Jewish traditions without converting. Perhaps we should start the God-fearer tradition again since there is so much interest in Judaism these days.
.

Answer 10

The fact that even a Reconstructionist Rabbi would not help him makes me seriously wonder what the poster was not mentioning...