If, as it has been claimed by some, an atheist can't know God doesn't exist because...?

Question

...they don't know everything there is to know, doesn't it also follow that nobody can know for sure that God does exist?

Okay, nothing new there, but even if you argue that you do actually 'know' God exists, what's to say there can't be more than one, even if the others haven't 'shown' themselves?

In Isaiah even God seems a little unsure:

44:8 ...Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

So if even God doesn't know...

And before you say it's 'out of context' here's the extended version.

44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
44:7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

No deep question, just asking if the possibility exists, that's all.

Antony everyone reads everything through a filter. I'm offering you my interpretation, and in return I'd hope for a little more than just stating the obvious.

What is _your_ interpretation of these lines?

It's not a tough question, neither is it rhetorical - is there a possibility that other gods exist, what do you think about that, do you have a counter-point to what I've said? I'm sure there's heaps of points you could take me up on, come on.

And with all due respect, my intellectual capacities are so finely attuned that I recognise ambiguity when I see it. If it were all that clear cut there would only be one version of Bible belief, wouldn't there? (That's a rhetorical question.)

1saint that sounds interesting, as I have often read on here that the Bible doesn't acknowledge the possibility of atheism, merely worship of other ('false') gods.

Thanks Tuberoot, that would be great. I didn't think it was an especially tough or obnoxious question, but then I guess all that is in the eye of the beholder, right?

Smarttobees I don't recall the earlier question, are you sure it was me?

And sorry, but no, the 'even God' was not indicative of any wavering on my part. My interest is still intense, but so are my beliefs still solid.

Tuberoot thanks for getting back to me. I've seen the Psalms example before of course, but I guess I don't see myself as a fool so it kind of washed over me! I do find it interesting that it would have occurred to anyone in those times that it was possible for anyone not to worship one or another god. Then I guess in that context if someone doesn't believe in 'the' God it doesn't really matter if they worship a 'false' god, or none at all.

Hmm, yes, interesting!

Answer 1

God reveals himself to who he wants the reveal himself to. An Atheist does not have that experience. So they go around asking for proof, and are confounded by the lack of it. He isn't there to poke and prod. He makes himself available to those who trust him. That's it. Plain and simple.

About those verses that you brought up, it was God speaking. He was constantly seeing 'his' people worship other gods. And so he said that there wasn't any other gods.

That's a part of what is to understand about Christianity. We say there is only one God, and I say it too. The complexity arises because we say that God is more complex than what people expect the 'One God' to be like. It's unexpected, but not impossible to understand.

But I think that even after having been exposed to this apparent 'trinity' people choose to say that they don't understand, rather than just accepting the definition. Not that they have to believe in it, but just understand that God is more complex than just saying, 'there is only one God'.

I think that you are an intelligent person. I hope that someday this will make sense to you. I won't hold my breath, but I percievve that you are honestly trying to reason things out. Please don't stop doing that.

See ya.

EDIT: The Bible DOES show an Athiestic viewpoint. I think that I should let you know. I'll show you verses as soon as I get back from work, okay?

YIKES! I forgot all about it! I hope it's not too late! You are probably posed to select the Best answer as I write this.

An Atheist example in the Bible:
Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

It was also a reaction that Pontius Pilate had:
John 18:38
"What is truth?" Pilate asked.

Answer 2

Atheists say they think to know, that as far as they know, and as far as there is to tell and analyze so far, there is no god or creator, and the biblical and quran god and fairy tales have been rules out for sure and are proofed to be derived from ancient mythology.
Atheists are the most intelligent people on earth, they do know there is still a lot we still don't know, but they also know there is a lot we do know. What we do know does not point to any god so far. That's why atheists do not believe there is a god.
Why do you believers try to prove I don't exist? Do christians not exist because there's no way to prove god, except from the indoctrinated assumption that "we are, so there must be a creator"?
Science is not there to place god in every gap of our knowledge. They think that gap can and will be filled with more science and knowledge. But research takes time. God only takes a few moments to be filled in, and is easy to understand for the intellectually lazy crowd.
Btw, 30% of all scientists is still religious in some way, so don't worry, if they find a real scientific fingerprint of some sort of god, they would really like to see it.

Answer 3

No it wasn't meant like that...

Prophet Isaiah was once a little bit unsure about His existence. At this point it actually reflects how an atheist converted as he saw the presence of G*d - you should read the earlier passage.

I was an atheist once, after I realized the error of Evolution Theory, I know that All beings are created by one powerful entity.

The probability of finding a life-supporting planet like earth is almost the same as finding a 1024 x 768 pixels picture of my face in 10^300 bits randomly written. And so the chance of human's DNA are 4^300000, does it happen only by a chance?

I am an electrical engineering student, as I learn and prove the law of physics and the law of electromagnetism I realize how consistant He is, and yet He is. When I try some electronic experiments, I was astonished that all results (nearly 10 million samples collected by sensors and a computer program) are wonderfully Gaussian Distributed, how perfect they are. They doesn't even seem random as if someone controls them

Many scientists that once were atheists then realize G*d existence i.e. Newton & Einstein.

That's why I now believe that He created this world. That He is, He exists.

G*d never play dice, He created human who are playing it.

Answer 4

Well look, from the viewpoint of human psychology, the state of being in doubt, is a temporary state that should not last very long.

A human being who lives in constant doubt, will never be able to possess the skills necessary to survive in a healthy manner.

So you may fall into doubt about the existence of something, but eventually your brain uses a lot of energy to bring you back to the state of consciousness whereby youre SURE of something.

i.e. you have observed, calculated and made a judgement

then and only then you can go on with your life

So from what youre saying, I have to conclude that an agnostic is a person who doesnt really give much thought into the existence of a creator: he or she is not bothered enough to come to a conclusive judgement

Because if they were, then the agnostic, would either turn into a believer or an atheist by the sheer value of judgement they place on the whole matter.

Eventually, youre bound to come to a conclusion.

Living in doubt of something, is not healthy and is a serious hindrance to brain activity if you ask me.

E

Answer 5

Well, knowledge and faith *are* quite different matters.
Plenty of people use "I know X" in the actual sense of "I am very very very sure that X", or "I have very strong faith in X". But the actual meaning of knowledge is "[sufficiently] justified conviction", which is conviction plus serious, hard evidence for it. Now, once you get close to this situation (close - as *sufficient* evidence can be found for only a few things), there is no more place for faith, in the sense of religious faith, strong belief and so on. I don't have faith in the table in front of my eyes, I don't have faith in Pythagoras' theorem or in the second law of thermodynamics, and precisely because these are pieces of knowledge.

So, my point: you either know it (in the proper sense of the word), or you have faith in it / you believe it, but not both, no matter what "it" is (a God, more gods, no god & co). So of course that no one has hard evidence for God's existence or not-existence, that's why we are *ALL* here, in R&S, and not in the science section.

Answer 6

Can more than one God exist? I think that it's logically impossible, seeing as there can only be 1 absolute authority, more than one authority would create a disagreement and a fude (Not FUD!).

We believe in God Because we feel that This universe with it's precise laws could not have happened by it's own without providence, And don't believe that it has existed since infinity ago.

Just because Science explains how something happens, doesn't mean that God wasn't behind it.

Answer 7

"even God seems a little unsure"

Congratulations, you've interpereted the Bible to complement your skepticism. You've just created God in your own image.

brilliant

It also SEEMS to be challenging the listener to name other gods besides God. He is a asking a "rhetorical question". That's what I see. Maybe I'm wrong.

You havent taken the scripture out of context, you've just implied that God is unsure about His own self-existence based on the words in a question.

I bet if you tried really hard, you could find other things that could be read in a way that makes it seem like God is schizophrenic, and ask a silly question like "does God have schizophrenia?"

"It's nice to see the wheels are spinning, but you won't move forward unless you're grounded" unknown, 2007

Answer 8

Are you familiar with rhetorical questions? (get it? hehe)
God is chastising Israel, so the questions are part of the lecture.
On to the topic of can multiple God's exist, no. God is infinite, and there can not exist two infinites. For if there were to exist two infinites, there would have to be something to distinguish between them. And if there were something distinguishing them, one would have something the other lacked, and therefore not be infinite.
Therefore, if there is a God, and God is infinite (both of these are defensible positions, but outside of the scope of this question) There Can Be Only One. (thank you Highlander!)

Answer 9

If God does not know of it, for me, it (what the God does not know) does not exist. That is what was meant to be conveyed to the believers.
In one of your early questions you had asked how does one identify an atheist and if the atheist is behaving true to his acclaimed belief. Is this phrase in your question 'So if EVEN (mark the usage of even) God doesn't know' a marker of the Twilight status?

Answer 10

God is the all knowing God. If he knows not any it is a definite statement that there is no other than him for he is all knowing and presents it as he does not know of any to say there isn't any other.

Tongue twister. the belief of Christianity and others with other beliefs will go their way. To each their own.