Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Muhammad Ali?

Question

Why is it that Muhammad Ali is considered G.O.A.T. and his style is so spectacular when a lot of what he did is copy Sugar Ray Robinson's style? The leg movement, getting into opponent's head before matches, and general style of boxing match exactly what Sugar Ray did yet in our time today he doesn't get nearly the same recognition as Ali the "Greatest Of All Time". Of course Ali was heavy weight, had great influence in a culture changing time of society, and was more outspoken. Your thoughts

Answer 1

The reason, I think, is beyond boxing. Muhammad Ali was a more colorful personality than Ray Robinson. He was brash and cocky, but everybody listened whenever he spoke. He bragged about how he would knock out his opponent in this or in that round, and people, especially Ali haters, would pay to watch the fight to see if he'd eat his word. Instead, it's his critics and detractors who ate their words. In other words, he had that certain mystique around him that regardless of whether you like him or hate him you're still gonna watch him.

As regards his boxing style, Ali himself admitted that he wanted to be a "heavyweight Sugar Ray", but he also developed a style of his own. For instance, the "rope-a-dope" and the "Ali shuffle" was purely his own. Ali also had a big or perhaps the biggest fighting heart ever. Robinson once quit in a middleweight title bout due to extreme heat. Ali was near death in the Thrilla in Manila but he never quit and even turned the tables on Frazier. Ali was already sick fighting Larry Holmes and was taking a beating for 10 rounds but he wouldn't stop until Angelo Dundee called for a halt. That's what greatness was all about.

Answer 2

Ali did copy Sugar Ray Robinson, but Ray was a middleweight. A heavyweight with middle weight speed and quickness was just about impossible. Ali did it, and it was the first time anyone seen a heavyweight with that kind of speed. The mouthing off and publicity was partially a result of the historical time frame. The civil rights era was a violent time in American history, and Ali played a major role in it. Ray Robinson wasn't anywhere near the social force outside the ring Ali was. Ali was recognized as "the greatest of all time" as much for what he did outside the ring as in it.

Great question.

Answer 3

I am young but a huge boxing fan so all I know about these fighters is from what I have read and the handful of fights I have seen on ESPN Classic, but it seems to me that SRR is and always has been considered by all those that actually know the game of boxing the best POUND FOR POUND boxer of all time, while Ali was considered one of, if not THE best HW of all time.

In my personal opinion, Ali's legacy was created by a combination of things, some of them by chance, some of them by his own doing. But unlike virtually all other boxers, it has only a little to do with what he actually accomplished in the ring.

If you want to talk about Ali's career IN THE RING, well then there are dozens of boxers that are more impressive. About all I can say about Ali is that he won gold at the olympics, got his but kicked by Frazier, then shocked the world when he beat Foreman, then avenged his loss to Frazier by twice beating an old broken down fighter. He also looked like crap against Norton.

But if you add what he did OUTSIDE the ring, you begin to see how a fighter like Ali can be regarded by virtually everyone, even those that weren't alive at the time, as "The Greatest". Take for instance the fact that he was a total media darling thanks to his relationship with Howard Cosell. And in all those interviews with all those poem he was entertaining us with, he kept repeating to the audience, "I AM THE GREATEST! I AM THE GREATEST!" I guess you could say that he is "self titled".

Also, we all know how he will be regarded in the history books thanks to his refusal to get drafted in the most unpopular war in American history.

In the end, I would say that Ali is a good fighter, definitely among the top 10 HW of all time (more for what he did to Foreman than anything else), but the idea of him really being "The Greatest" is more of a media creation than anything.

Sugar Ray Robinson was the real deal though.

Answer 4

If they would have been in the same weight class and in their prime, I'd take Ali, Robinson was great but could be inconsistant at times. He may have been 5 time Middleweight Champion wich meant he tended to loose the title a bit.

Answer 5

Come on. Give Sugar Ray his props. The man fought 200 fights. H

Answer 6

Ali would Win

Answer 7

well ali wins to me as better fighter all around but there are alot of guyys out there who dont get credit like sugar ray as you said and rock marciano and the evaders and listons but yeah all around ALI deserves the title of greates of all time in my opinion.
thanks
~josh