The argument about free will...?

Question

Very often Non-Believers post questions about why there is evil in the world and the general, generic Christian response is free will.

The argument of free will usually consists of the person giving an explaination stating something along the lines of "just because your parents had you, raised you correctly does that mean that your parents are at fault when as an adult you rob a bank?
In the same manner, the being that became Satan was created correctly. He like all others had been given free will. He chose poorly and used it for selfish purposes.

If you had a grown child, perhaps a 30 year old son, and because you loved your son, you gave a sports car BMW to him because he always wanted one, and because so far he had always been responsible -- is it then your fault that he kills himself or others by speeding?" (I copied this from an answer I received from a Christian previously regarding a similar subject.)

Humans do not claim to be perfect but Christians claim that God is.

My point is this argument about parents is invalid because parents, being humans, do not claim to be perfect and omnipotent and able to determine the fate of their children. Christians, however, claim that God is perfect and omnipotent and has the power to make the world perfect but he simply chooses not to...free will or not.

Note that I am not 'blaiming God' for bad in the world as I do not believe that God exists. Blame for real problems cannot be based on a fictional character.

Answer 1

Whether or not you concede that human beings have invented "God," it's certainly true that they've endowed Him with human characteristics. The standard "Christian" imbecile idea of God is that of a human father conjoined with the idea of immensity. This is not any less the case because the "Christian" is serially incapable of analyzing his ideas into their components.

As for the whole "Free Will" controversy, it comes down to this. Christians define God as a "perfect" Being, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. It should be seen at once that such a Being could never create lesser beings who were not merely parts of Himself. "Free will" on the part of any partial being would be impossible, or at least illusory, since our postulated God would know every decision that every being would make from Eternity, and would in fact have created every being with the germ of all his decisions and actions already within him. The notion of "rebellion" against such a God, on the part of angel, man, or any partial being, is sheer nonsense. So then theists have a choice - either God is NOT all-powerful and all-knowing, or human beings do NOT have "free will."

Note the tangled web theology has woven in order to try to dodge these conclusions. Man is said to have rebelled against God, at the instigation of woman, who had in turn been "tempted" by the Serpent, identified (later) with Satan. And yet, as we have seen, no matter how many links in the chain, none of these beings could have conceived of a plan that was not part of God's plan. If man is "fallen," the blame is on God, and there's no getting away from it!

Against this the "Christian" will merely quote Scripture; and there the argument must stop. It is impossible to find common ground for an intellectual discussion between people who refer everything to a single collection of ancient texts and people who actually use their own brains.

Answer 2

your question looks familar...Anyways i have two respones

1. The christian version - God is the only perfect being. The purpose of sin (God’s fault) was to distinguish God (perfect) between Humans (imperfect).

and

2. The logic version - If a perfect being is capable of perfect creation, but created imperfectness instead, then whats the purpose of punishing a imperfect being for doing imperfectness?

your example: "If you had a grown child, perhaps a 30 year old son, and because you loved your son,...........?"

exactly, humans are imperfect beings, therefore they made imperfect actions(mistakes). However a God(perfect) is capable of doing both - perfect AND imperfect, but he chose imperfectness instead, therefore in conclusion a perfect God doesn't exist, because he blames mistakes to mistake-prone beings.

P.S.

perfectness = no flaws and no unintended consequences

a Perfect being therefore has = free will + all God have (except for the infinites: omnipotence, immortality, etc....)

Answer 3

I really were with my husband for merely about 8 years now, and we've had only 2 arguments. I say argument, yet there develop into no yelling or shouting. My husband works very demanding outdoors the homestead, i'm the only which does the kinfolk contributors accounting, cleansing, cooking, procuring, dogs and childcare... i imagine you get my glide. both arguments stemmed from one or the different human beings getting into the different's "territory" or "area" we've agreed to allow the perfect man or woman for the interest deal with the interest. We also search for suggestion from one yet another on all of our judgements. no matter if that is how a lot the fee should be on the mastercard this month, or if i might want to thoughts if he went out with the boys. that is needed in a relationship that you remember you do not opt to develop into one. you want to develop into 2 those who can artwork mutually, with compromise, understand, interest and love. through accepting each others' dominant personalities, you're taking the first step. through respecting them, you also understand your relationship. best of success to you.

Answer 4

God gifted us with free will. We can make our own choices.

I'd love to be able to fly, but I don't have wings.
My free will is limited by certain physical parameters, in this case. It does not mean that I cannot try to leap off my house and test my arms for "lift." That merely means I'm an idiot for taking my free will beyond the laws of physics.

There are spiritual parameters also. I can push the spiritual envelope, but only to my own spiritual hurt. And God has the ability, and the love, to limit and provide parameters within which we can freely choose.

Answer 5

You have made a very valid point, however parents are used as just that, an example and the definition of free will is what should be used for the point, to questions about exactly what is free will. good luck and keep going.

Answer 6

God started out operating through his prophets with high-dollar miracles. Using the most hated group of people in the world.But they kept turning to engraved images as gods and disobeying God.
So He made salvation available for everyone through the sacrifice of Jesus. And simply turned off the magic miracle machine.
Jesus brought in a whole new set of rules. And one of those was that a father's sins would not be passed to the son.
So we are each our own soul. And free to decide between good and evil.

Answer 7

its no ones fault when you get into trouble only your own.
if people blame other your just immature and a coward.
free will means to me that your free to make choice own your own. i dont care who satan is i dont care who god is. i will respect you as a human and what you believe in. so there for i will love you if you love me back. I WILL NOT force any thoughts or emotions you dont want. you dont even have to know me. i could be your friend, or your pet dog. lol.

Answer 8

There is no Free Will. The choices we make are always the ones that seem the best idea at the time.

CD

Answer 9

and additionally, since god knew me before I was born he already knew what I would choose. He chooses not to intervene. Ergo he must want me to go to hell, because I reject the old bipolar monster of the old and the new testament.

Answer 10

theres always a choice....blaming the Lord wont help anyone...we all sin!!!